Wednesday, April 11, 2012
The Theme: "Fair is foul and foul is fair..." (Block F)
We are introduced to the theme of the play very early on. The theme of "fair is foul and foul is fair" implies a definite reversal of what is supposed to be the natural order of how things are supposed to work in the world. For you first discussion, you are to talk about how this theme shows itself in our society and whether or not there is any chance of it changing. Be sure to use actual examples and state your reasons for your opinions.
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ReplyDeletei dont know how to comment so this is my comment..... In the play, Macbeth, the theme fair is foul and foul is fair to me means that the things that should be moral good are considered bad and the things that are moral bad are considered things that are good. I believe that this takes place even in are day through movies, video games and other similar entertainment. Many movies convince children that the things that actors are doing in the movies are actually realistic and moral correct when in fact they are not at all realistic or moral correct. For example even James Bond even though I love watching his movies the things that he is able to do are quite unrealistic. James Bond also does things that are not morally correct, such as killing people(even innocent people), using women to get things, stealing... ect ect.. Also I believe that the quote fair is foul and foul is fair is very prevelent in our society even something as simple as trying to look cool in front of freinds by doing something stupid or morally incorrect yet you recieve praise from peers. On a worse note some big gangs require you to do certain task to get in to there gang, such as murder, theft or whatever it might be, and to the gang leaders this is a sign of good if you do it. That is what i have to say about this qoute :)
DeleteI completely agree with your points, the one about people doing stupid things to impress their friends, is a common everyday event, and the theme really shows in this specific event. As much as it seems stupid, it can pick out different types of people in different groups, like in gangs, the more ruthless the individual he/she may be thought of more of a threat then a individual that is quite maybe smaller but still gets the job done just because he/she stands out.
DeleteI agree too, there are too many instances in todays society where people are brainwashed with the idea of trying to impress a group of people. It may seem right at the moment because the end result might be temporary praise or excitement, but the truth might be that what they did may have harmed someone else. But we might be fully unaware or even not caring about the consequence because it might seem right at the moment.
DeleteI fully agree with both of you. I especially agree with Nathans idea about it being right thing to do at the moment because of the end result. I think we saw this in the Stanley Cup last year when we lost and there was a mob mentality that sort of took over people. People did things that they would not normal do but because they got praise from the crowd for doing it they did it.
DeleteIn the play, Macbeth, the theme is fair foul, foul is fair, this means good is considered evil, and evil is considered good. For example, Call of Duty, it's a game that contains violence and the main purpose is too kill people to advance. Also kids are always abusing each other because they can't see each other in person ad thru a mic they feel like they can say anything they want. Also a lot of kids under the age of 17 the actual gender rating of the game, are playing this game and are having a band influence on them early in there life. Also I believe such behaviour can lead to children acting violent at school or in there community. The goods of video games can be it relieves stress and the cons are children will start to think that violence solves everything and try using short cuts in life and maybe end up doing things without thinking such as murder.
ReplyDeletei like your idea games like COD and GTA are harming the young minds of society today , there emotions are numbed at a young age by being exposed to violence and death, its even in t.v shows and movies. jersey shore shows people in there late 20's and mid 30's getting wasted everynight that is not sumthing young children should watch but they show it anyway
DeleteRegarding video games like Call of Duty, there is an even more relevant factor which relates to the theme "fair is foul, and foul is fair." Call of Duty is a franchise developed by companies such as Infinity Ward, Sledgehammer games, and Treyarch. The publisher of these franchises is a company called Activision. There are a countless number of people or "haters" out there who express their dislike for the game, and these developers seem to take all the blame. (These haters consist of Battlefield 3 fans and fans of other video games) Meanwhile Activision gets all the benefits (millions and millions of dollars).
Deletein the play macbeth the theme is clearly stated that fair is foul n foul is fair which dosent seem very true when you think about good people doing good things but in reality good people have to do bad things. for example jay z is a very famous rapper but few people know that he wouldnt be where he was if he didnt let illuminati put there symbols in his videos and make him sing about certain things that represent illuminati. this shows that in order for you to have succes you have to do some bad things.
ReplyDeleteIf good people have to do bad things though, doesn't that automatically make them not good? So then it goes back to bad people being successful and good people being punished.
DeleteNo matter what, good people in the world will end up doing something bad at one point in their life. So the question is to every single person out there is, "What is your personal view on what is bad is considered bad?" and also, "How far can you go to be considered a bad person?" This varies from person to person. Should us (individuals in society) continue to base our opinions on what we think is bad based on society as a whole? Or have our personal opinion based on the law with a mixture of your own views? What I'm trying to say is that everyone has a different outlook on what is bad and what is good out there in the world.
DeleteIn the play "Macbeth", "fair is foul,foul is fair is the theme but it is also a paradox, it implies that good people will be punished and bad people will be rewarded.
ReplyDeleteIn society this paradox may be found in many things, but were i see it coming into play is sports. in sports there are always those bad guys that are rewarded for taking people out, mostly defenders their job is to shut down any offense the opposing team is tryin to make. in lacrosse if im on defense im trying to break ,wrists,arms and put people on the ground it may sound like a bad thing but my coach would love to see it happen and it will also help the team.
I agree with your idea, Lucas. I understand what you're saying with the whole sports world and the strong, tough guy is seen as amazing. I have had my own experience with this before in sports as well, and the whole part about your coach loving is true sometimes. In hockey if a player makes a big hit the crowd loves it, along with the players and coach. However if that same player was to get a penalty for a similar hit, the people would be angry with the player. Anyways, I really liked your point and how you brought sports into it.
DeleteI agree with you Lucas, coming from a family who has played lots of hockey. My uncle played with this man who got in a fight with this guy from the other team, "a goon," and his head got bashed repeatedly on the ice, (he was never able to play again). And it appeared that the goon was rewarded for his actions by taking out one of the best players on his team.
DeleteI defiently agree with you Lucas this has actually already happend in professinal football with the New Orleans Saints. The coach made a deal with the players about who could injure the most players by the end of the season. The coach was suspended for a year and many players recieved fines from it. I do see this as a problem in future years in sports as well as other things.
Deletei agree with your point but sometimes a defender may take a penalty while trying to defend which penalizes your team and turns you trying to do your job into an oppurtunity for the other team.
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ReplyDeleteThe theme of Macbeth is, fair is foul and foul is fair, which is saying good is punished, bad is rewarded. In today's society we can see this idea in more than one way. For example just in the career world, we have the underpaid, minimum wage worker who works hard for long hours in unsafe environment, as to someone who is the CEO of that company and sits in their office and gets paid millions. Also in third world countries we have children living in poverty and underdeveloped cities with no clean water and such, and then we have a spoiled child in America or Canada who has clean water and hundreds of dollars in electronics. Where is the fairness in that? Mostly I don't believe there is a huge chance in changing in either of these situations, because the people who hold the power don't usually want to give it up. I'm not saying there are not people out there with power trying to make a difference in the world though, so don't get me wrong. I just don't believe a major difference will be made for a long time.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that you don’t think a major difference will be made for a long time. And I also I like how you used underpaid, minimum wage workers as an example because a lot of us can relate to it. I think it is a good thing a lot students have part time jobs because it teaches independence for the world after high school. Having a job can also help teach us about saving money. But it can also be bad because it can be very hard for a student to go from school to work and find time to do their assignments and study.
DeleteI agree with you that this way of living will be hard to change because people with power usually won't want to give it up. We all know that power is one of the easiest way to corrupt a person. That a person with power, let it be any type and minimal power will not want to give it away. this will insure our world is stuck this way for quite awhile
DeleteI agree with you Megan. Especially with the fact about those CEO's that just sit in an office and don't care about their workers at all. All they care about is money, and it's really just sad. A worker who puts in hours and hours of labor and doesn't appear to be rewarded at all. Their reward? That'd be the minimum wage that they receive, which is not even enough to live on in one year for an average American.
DeleteI actually do not agree with a couple of the points you’ve presented Megan. Firstly, I think people forget CEOs work beyond hard to get where they’re at. It’s such a stereotypical notion that they sit in their offices and do nothing. Their work is a lot less hands on than people below them but they do run huge companies, and the fact that they run those companies smoothly prove that they are good at their jobs. Secondly, I am a firm believer in the fact that the governments of third-world countries need to take a stand on their own to bring about any form of change. I can say this because whenever my family visits India, I see, firsthand the slums and the poor orphans on the street corners. Of course one can donate money, food and clothes but that is not enough. There is only so much the Western world can do. Regardless of how much support countries in Africa and Asia get, their own governments need to take a charge in ending the corruption within. So calling teenagers here spoilt is quite unfair; just because we’re more privileged that doesn’t mean we’re spoilt. However, I really liked how you incorporated one of the most relevant topics in our world today – employment. There are many skilled workers who have a really hard time finding a job and many are not being paid what they deserve.
DeleteI agree with you, and Jessica S. CEO's of big companies usually were all in the same position of the minimum wage worker. They work like that for years, until finally it becomes worth it when they get promoted to a higher pay. Of course, some people are more lucky than others. They could very much have been given the position because of family relations. It does seem kind of unfair to me as well when I see all these poor countries. I believe that there should definitely be more equality when it comes to wealth.
DeleteIn Macbeth the theme is “Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair”. In this world one would like to think that good people are rewarded and bad people are punished, this is what we learn quickly as children. But is it really that way? In some senses yes, there are criminals that get caught and go to jail, being punished for their wrong doings. But do good people really supreme over the bad? Wars ripple across the world, violence runs in the street, and corruption takes over many. It would seem that being foul is fair in our world. Shakespeare hints early on that the play Macbeth will also follow this premise, showing just how bad people can strive and good people fall. I believe that in our history this has always been the way. I don’t believe that we can change such powerful bonds as that. It will always be in human nature to try to do anything to get what we desire. In our society “Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair” is seen through out the countries. Let it be a simple thing like cheating on a test and getting the better score then someone who had studied, to lying to benefit your own success.
ReplyDeleteContrary to what you posted about what was taught to us about what's good and bad, I recall a post by someone else about violent video games. Killing in these video games seem to be the right (good) thing to do since it advances you to the next level but in reality, its contradictory to what the school or what church teaches us about good and evil. I suppose it's attributed to bad parenting that kids play such games even when there are age restrictions. These kids could end up as bullies in school or even criminals when they grow older, just because of the bad things on those video games that they currently perceive as good.
DeleteI think you're right about how someone will do something bad for their own success. I feel that good people are seen as good because they're honest and don't want violence and all that so obviously they won't go doing something that wouldn't be right. Bad people are seen as cheaters or killers and liars, they don't care what happens so they come out to be the most succesful because they don't feel bad about what they do. Most politicians are that way. They lie and cheat and manipulate people to get to the highest spot.
DeleteIn the story "Macbeth", the them is "Fair is foul and foul is fair", meaning the good suffer and evil triumphs. A example of this is modern day politics. In the U.S.A, the voting for the republican candidate for the election this year is underway. Ron Paul, one of the candidates, was a honest, open minded, free thinking man who isn't afraid to speak him mind. Sadly, Ron Paul being the most sensible choice for the republican party was overshadowed by Michelle Bachman,Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, and Rick Santorum who spurted homophobic slurs, messages of hate towards religions that were not Christianity, and preached about how god told them to run and save america from itself. These people were lifted to the high media pedastle while Ron Paul was completely ignored by the mainstream media (Fox,CNN,C-SPAN). They were telling young people about the problem in america are the muslims, atheists, immigrants and pro-choice people are rotting the country from the ground up.Ron Paul was open to the new ideas of the people today, and that wasn't in the best in interest of the main contributers to the republican candidates.Even after Herman Cain, Michelle Bachman,Rick Perry and Rick Santorum dropped out, most people thought they were gonna hear from Ron Paul, but still he was blocked by the media who turned all their attention to Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich. It has been a hard run for Ron Paul and seems like its only going to the harder. it just goes to show that the good suffer and the evil triumphs.
ReplyDeleteKevin Lomas.
DeleteI agree with your example. I think that Michelle Bachman, Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, Rick Perry, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum could be considered "bad", or "evil". Furthermore, Ron Paul could be seen as "good". He is truly attempting to help run a country which is in need of legitimate solutions and intelligent ideas. Unfortunately, Michelle Bachman etc, are ruining not only his chances, but the opportunity for the people of the U.S.A. to listen to a sensible candidate. I think that the "evil" or "bad" is also partially the media itself. It has a history of not portraying humanity's best interests, but instead the most entertaining ones. Do you think that this could or will change though?
DeleteI do not feel this would change because of the media becoming a squawk box telling people the things they want to hear ( or what the media wants them to hear) instead of giving people the cold hard truth and learning that life does not and will not have a happy ending and rational thought is needed to move forward.
DeleteIn William Shakespeare's play, Macbeth, the theme is clearly, "Fair is foul and foul is fair." This quote is from Act 1 Scene 1, and it means that everyday good people within the world will by punished, while on the other hand, the stereotypical bad people will be rewarded. In society, before DNA entered the court systems, testimonies in court-cases were mostly based off eye-witnesses. Eyewitnesses aren't always reliable and can change their stories and naturally fill in the "missing puzzle pieces," (that they can't remember). Humans are people that want to know the whole story, so if they can't remember one part, they will fill in what they forgot with a new piece of information. I learned this is psychology this year. With us wanting to fill in a story, this meant the unreliable eye-witnesses can misidentify the criminal with an innocent person. This meant that the good people were being treated as criminals, and being punished for a crime that they never committed by getting their freedom revoked. While the actual criminal him or herself was rewarded by living their everyday normal lives as if nothing has changed since the crime they committed. Their lives weren't altered after they committed the crime and therefore they are rewarded with freedom. This doesn't happen as often as it did in the 70s or 80s but it's still a problem today. A study done in Columbus Ohio, proved that approximately 10000 individuals living in the United States today are, "wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year." No matter what I still think there will always be people wrongly accused. Some of the real criminals are still walking on the streets today and may be for a while due to the court/ legal systems. Although the numbers may be decreased over time, the problem won't ever be permanently corrected.
ReplyDeleteI like your perspective on the theme and your example completely relates to the idea that good people are sometimes punished while the stereotypical bad people are not. This is seen within our everyday society quite a bit and as you mentioned there has been change but it will never be enough. The theme will continue to appear throughout our lives and generations to come because I don't believe there is a way our legal system will figure out a 100% full proof way to know who is guilty and who is innocent.- tavleen
DeleteIn Shakespeare's play, Macbeth, the theme is "Fair is foul and foul is fair." this basically means that things that would normally be bad are in this case good and things that are normally good are looked at as being bad. it is not hard to find situations in real life that are like this. for example, in Uganda there is a man named Joseph Kony, you have probably heard all about him from a recent viral video that explains how he comits horrible war crimes and crimes against humanity such as kidnaping children. He is part of a rebel group called the LRA which aims at overthrowing the government and making the country a better place. Kony thinks that kidnapping people and killing people is the right thing to do and in this case, good. However anyone who betrays him or does something which would otherwise be known as good, will have there nose and lips chopped off. This is a horrible but true part of todays rebelious society and there is many other rebel groups and terrorists in the world that think the same way.We just have to accept that there will always be people that think this way and we cant do anything about it.
ReplyDeleteBy, Nathan Fast
DeleteI agree what Joesph Kony's doing is bad and he thinks it is a good thing, fair is foul and foul is fair. But i dont believe that there is nothing we can do. If we all work hard on stopping people like him, we can bring him down along with everyone else working with him and all the other child soldier groups and even stop anyfuture leaders from rising like Kony. Making the world a better place, one step at a time.
Deletei agree that Joseph Kony is doing bad but he is only 1 person encouraging his whole army to do these things. If this 1 person can inspire so many people to do bad then why cant we inspire people to do good and stop Kony now before things get even worse.
DeleteThe theme "foul is fair and fair is foul" Implies the reversal of what is seen as good and bad, which makes me think of the all the large companies and the massive amount of layoffs. Which is seen by most people as a bad thing but the companies justify it as a needed cut back to help the business stay in the black in todays economy, but at the same time they're giving massive bonuses and raises to senior members who already have more money then they know what to do with. And while everyone else thinks they should be dropping the huge salaries allowing companies to stop layoffs, the high positioned members still see these raises as fair and good even though almost everyone disagrees.
ReplyDeleteI like how you related this to the concept "The rich become richer and the poor poorer." Depending on the point of view, it's both good and bad. I believe it doesn't always mean the Mr. Large Company is always bad and Mr. Low Position is good. The company may have grown from good intentions and humble beginnings whereas the employee is stuck at a low position because he didn't pay attention in school.
DeleteSo yeah, lots and lots of examples with many different ways of looking at them. This is actually a very exciting and engaging topic. :)
I really like your idea here. I think through out the world today we can see this concept being played over and over with the large companies. This is actually a huge problem in the America at the moment. In some companies we see even people cutting each other down to get the higher position, and in most cases the person who did the cutting will get that senior position, so that begs the question can fair ever truly win again foul.
Deletei agree with your concept about how businesses layoff poeple and than give raises to higher members. Which is not fair to the people getting layed off. I have witness this because my dad got layed off by different companies. He only worked 2-4 weeks and then he got layed off.
Delete-Ruman Takhar
For me “Fair is foul and foul is fair” simply means nothing is what it seems. What may appear as good to others is bad to some, and what’s bad to others could be good to some. Take for example the recently concluded elimination of American Idol. Jessica Sanchez is obviously one of the, if not the strongest contestant in the competition, and every week she gets great reviews from the judges. But what happened? She was in the bottom three, and apparently was in last place and was to be eliminated if not for the "save" from the judges. So relating this to the theme, it may seem that she had it in the bag, all the way to the finals. She definitely has lots of fans, the judges like her and all, but then a completely opposite turnout. So for people like me who are rooting for her, our over-confidence in her talent made us complacent. Most American fans probably didn't feel they had to vote anymore. And that's just one way to relate the theme to the event. Another could be that for what us fans was a disappointment (bad), could be a big break (good) for the other remaining contestants.
ReplyDeleteOne last example from a different event ~ I keep up with the news in my motherland, Philippines. And currently there's an issue about a mall company cutting down trees to make room for its parking facility. So the mall company has the original intention of serving the people by building a mall (and of course making money while at it), which is good. But then for some locals, it's bad because their environment is being destroyed. Now here's the reversal: The local protesters (mostly tag-alongs) are causing riot, fighting the police who are there to stop them as they rally towards the mall (bad). They've also been publishing articles that put the mall company in a very bad position (also bad). Meanwhile, the mall company is not merely just cutting down the trees, but is engaged in earth-balling. It's a process in which the trees are to be transferred to a different location and while at it, the company promises to plant 50 tress for every tree transferred, which is of course... good. I don’t think this concept is going to change because it is just too imminent and recursive. Just like how a coin will always have two sides.
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DeleteThe second part, about the mall, I think basically it's that when people don't know the full story, they just follow the biggest crowd. The police probably seem "bad" in the situation to the public but they're just trying to do their job. By doing their job and trying to keep the area safe, they're being good but are being punished by the public because the public are giving them a bad reputation. Same with the mall company.
DeleteI agree with you second example of "fair is foul and foul is fair". Considering the situation in the world today ie:climate change,rising water levels and pollution, keeping all the forested area left in the world is beneficial and is essential to the future of our existence, but people need shops and groceries stores to support there way of life. It very complicated and either desicion will have some kind of negative consequence.
DeleteThe paradox Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair in Macbeth seems to have a few meanings to me. One example of what it may mean is when Chris Brown abused Rhianna. Everyone expected him to be treated poorly, but instead he was treated with more publicity. Although the publicity may have been negative, he was still idolized and made public even after the terrible thing he did.
ReplyDeleteAnother example is the difference between "good and bad things" happening to "good and bad people." If a "good" person has something bad happen to them, they can't handle it. It seems unfair and not acceptable because they are a "good person." And if a good thing happens to a bad person, it also seems unfair as they are a "bad person" so only bad things should happen to them.
The phrase Fair is Foul and Foul is Fair means simply that bad and good things can happen to both good and bad people.
I never really thought about the whole Rihanna + Chris Brown ordeal as Chris Brown being idolized, but now that I think about it I understand your point. Even though he was seen as bad he got so much publicity, and look at him now. Sure, he may not be what he used to be, but he is still doing well.
DeleteI believe although Chris Brown may have received more publicity out of that ordeal, I don't think he was idolized. He lost many fans, and people who once respected him. Of course there are always exceptions to that. His career that could have been much better now if that didn't happened, and he wasn't so careless to Rihanna in beating her up.
DeleteI agree with Megan, I don't think anyone in their right mind idolized Chris Brown, however Melissa, you do have a point in saying that gained him a lot of publicity. However, Chris kind of didn't have a career for awhile after the horrible thing he did and a lot of people, in the entertainment industry and outside lost a lot of respect for him. So he may have gotten publicity might it was definitely not good publicity. It's only recently that his career has been revived.
DeleteI also agree he definitely was not idolized but i believe he was in a way forgiven by "hollywood" for what he had done and was henceforth able to continue his career after the fact. He did lose fans but i think people are definitely starting to forgive him and shouldn't they? How long would he have to be punished for what he did? He is human and therefore made a mistake and probably will make more mistakes in his life, as it is inevitable.
DeleteIn our society, the theme of fair is foul and foul is fair actually shows up in a lot of different places. For example, people with a strong inventive mind generally tend to get ripped off and have their ideas stolen. At times, they won’t have enough charisma or money to sell their idea even though they formed it to help people in society. Thomas Edison was given credit for inventing so many things but if you do enough research, you’ll discover that it wasn’t him who invented it. The motion picture camera for example was invented by two French brothers but he bought the patent and claimed the idea had been his own. He was bad and got fame and credit and went down in history while the brothers were forgotten. When bad people have money, they can always buy their way out of situations if they commit a crime while if one is innocent and doesn’t have enough money, they will still be punished. There have been a lot of situations in history where an innocent person has been killed and then proven innocent after they have died. Another example is when someone starts a rumor. Generally, the person who started the rumor tends to gain a lot of “followers” and the subject of the rumor tends to lose all respect from people even though they didn’t do anything. One last example is politicians. They often lie and still get paid so much for their jobs while people who want to help the world remain in the lower class of society. Gordon Campbell got a raise after drinking and driving while teachers, who are trying to help us, still haven’t gotten what they asked for even after their strike.
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, I love the idea of inventors. If you have seen the movie "The Prestige", it could be tied in with this. Essentially, two magicians have a sort of "battle" over a magic trick named "The Transported Man". Man #1, who invented the trick, is not an exceptional showman, therefore he has a wonderful trick that is not receiving as much attention as it could. That leads directly in to Man #2. Man #2 decides to basically steal the trick. He is a far better showman though, and therefore receives a lot of recognition for it. This sort of goes back and forth over the movie, but the general idea fits in with what you explained.
DeleteIn William Shakespeare’s play, Macbeth, we are introduced to the theme of the story at quite an early stage through the paradox “Fair is foul and foul is fair.” A basic interpretation of this quote would be that nothing is as it seems. Those whose actions may seem fair might actually be foul and vice-versa. The Weird Sisters, as they are called, suggest that they live in a world where the moral order of things is reversed; a world where it is difficult to tell what is truly fair or good and what is foul and evil. To relate this quote to a relevant topic the controversy surrounding Invisible Children provides examples. Invisible Children is a non-profit organization founded in 2004 to bring awareness to the activities of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) in Central Africa, and its leader, Joseph Kony. Kony is Africa’s most notorious militia leader. Kony’s army kidnapped thousands of children and used them as child soldiers and sex slaves. Invisible Children’s goal was to make Kony famous and in turn bring him and his LRA army to justice for all the harm they’ve caused. As well natured as their actions may have been, even a non-profit organization such as Invisible Children faces a lot of controversy from the public eye. They have been accused of donating a measly amount of their profits to the charities they claim they support when the owners of Invisible Children live lavish lives. It has been said that they give 31% of their donations to military troops in Africa such as the Sudanese and Ugandan ones and the Ugandan soldiers are said to kill and rape innocent civilians while the Sudanese soldiers are said to recruit child soldiers. As we live half-way across the world from these people it is not in our hands to know who is making up lies and who is being genuine. Controversy surrounds everyone and everything but if Invisible Children actually doesn’t support communities in Africa and Asia as is their job to do, then what is genuinely good in our world? There will be no change in this situation if people who are said to be the epitome of good cannot act good and in turn apathy, which is not good will seem like a better option.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the points your brought up about the controversy with the Invsible Children charity, however the Invisble Children campaign was to "Stop Kony". Most people believed right off the bat that there was this man named Joseph Kony kidnapping people and making them into child soilders. Would ir be right to say that their intentions weren't intentionally good? Of course people can donate to charities that are 100% fullproof, but the Joseph Kony campaign put a major emphasis on the injustice going on in Third World Countries. THe Invisible Children Chartiy may be a scam, but they still put out a word, and maybe that would make other's donate to a more trusting charity. But in the end, there is still light shed on the issues that need to be dealt with, and that there are other people suffering all around the world.
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DeleteI went off track with where I was going. The whole Joseph Kony aspect of my post was quite irrelevant because I was talking about Invisible Children. I guess I connected the two because of the LRA. Regardless, I completely see where you're coming from. And I guess it might be too much to ask for an organizaion that donates 100% of their profits for what they stand. Since neither of us actually know what Invisible Children's actual motives are and whether they are genuine or not, we can only hope they truly want to make a change since so many thousands of people are inspired by the messages they provide.
DeleteI completely agree. At the end of the day, its the thought that counts, and I really acknowledge the points your brought up about the idea of giving to charities. It ties in with the theme because there are people everywhere donating generously to charities, and for all we know, those charities could be taking advantage of our actions to help others. How are we to know what really goes on behind the scenes? The only way we can be 100% positive that our money goes to where they say it does, is to literally hand the donations to the people in whatever country we are donating to.
DeleteIn Macbeth, one of William Shakespeare’s renowned plays, the theme is “Fair is foul and foul is fair.”. This is a concise way of saying that good people will be punished, and bad people will be rewarded. In today’s world, this is becoming more valid as each day goes by. But, something that is not immediately correlated with it, is opinion. One example, which could be considered slightly controversial, is last year’s Stanley Cup Finals. The Vancouver Canuck’s were a hard working team leading up to those finals and everyone in Vancouver found them to be an exceptional group. Everyone in Vancouver found them to be “good”. On the other hand, Boston had a reputation in the series as an overly-aggressive pack of scoundrels. So, everyone in Vancouver considered them to be “bad”. Now, as we all know, Boston took the win and are Stanley Cup Champions. Good people were punished, and bad people were rewarded. The reason for bringing this forth is because in a story, or in this case a play, that one creates, the point of view is given to you. You can not choose it. In real life, one’s point of view can be chosen. To the people of Boston, the Canucks are a team of diving, complaining wimps; They are “bad”. Therefore, this “Fair is foul and foul is fair” theme is not the same for the people of Boston. This just goes to show that this theme CAN be “changed”, although it is very present in today’s society.
ReplyDeleteI agree with how it depends on one's opinion on the situation. In my arguement I included how politicians lie, cheat and manipulate to be successful but the only reason they are successful is because people listen to them and think they are actually good people. Your example of sports teams fit into that as well because obviously a fan of a sports team is going to think they're good and support them no matter what they do but if the opposing team does something similar, they'd be hated.
DeleteI quite like the idea of incorporating the Canucks into this theme aswell. A great current example using the Canucks, and still relating to this theme, is the questionable body check on Henrik Sedin layed out by LA King captain, Dustin Brown. Just last night, April 15th, Dustin Brown completely blind-sided Henrik, nearly putting him into a concussion. Brown went on playing without serving any penalty. In fact, the Canucks ended up playing 4 on 3 from this.
DeleteYes, it is true that you can still use the Canucks as an example! I agree that the questionable hit on Henrik Sedin fits in perfectly with what I mentioned above. Me being a Canucks fan, I was shocked when I saw it happen and was even more shocked when Dustin Brown went un-penalized! It was horrible! But, if we consider LA's point of view, they must have been elated that Dustin Brown "cleaned out" Henrik Sedin without taking a penalty. To them, it might even be a highlight of the series! Furthermore, later on when Bieksa levelled Dustin Brown and went without a penalty I know I was quite happy. But I am sure the LA Kings fans do not feel the same way. The point of view is very tricky!
DeleteI like how you used the Canucks as an example. I agree that it is all opinion based. If someone is a fan of a certain team, they will think of them as "good" and think that they should get what they worked for. This is true with any sports team. If any sports team is considered "good", they obviously should get something good in reward. A "bad" team should receive something bad as a reward.
DeleteIn the play Macbeth, by Shakespeare, the theme "Fair is foul and foul is fair" talks about how good is known as bad, and vice versa. An example of how this relates to real life is Bonnie and Clyde. They were criminals who murdered and comitted a large variety of crimes. Even with these horrible crimes, they were admired for their love and perseverence. After their death, they were the subject of various movies, songs and books. Such criminal behavior turned them into celebrites after their death. The movie portrays them as a very kind couple, and you really sympathize with them. Even though the commit crimes. Another good example is people who are falsely accused of crimes. Ray Krone was a man who was wrongly accused of murder twice. There was supposedly evidence of his teeth marks on the victim. Of course, everyone believed this, and were very glad to see him go to jail. The truth was though, that there were no tests that were conducted. He spent 10 years in jail before finally being released because of outside evidence. Everyone thought that he was a murderer, but in reality, he wasn't.
ReplyDeleteThis theme occurs often in law.
love the fact that you used a pop culture reference such as that of Bonnie and Clyde to illustrate your point and I believe fully that their story completely fits in with the theme we’re discussing. They almost provided the masses with something to look forward to because they were so interesting in their personal lives. Their behaviour was so bizarre to what was expected of the time period. Usually women stayed at home and looked after their husbands when the husbands in turn worked boring, normal nine to five jobs. The whole concept of a not so ordinary couple being criminals might have intrigued everyone that encountered them, in person or in the media. Their love story also had to be a major influence on why the public adored them. Motives not so great, and yet they were turned into celebrities as you’ve already mentioned.
DeleteI also like the idea of Bonnie and Clyde with this theme. Like both of you said, Bonnie and Clyde did bad crimes but just there personal life was seen as so interesting for the time period, that they became famous. This is also seen today in media with celebrities. For example you have Charlie Sheen who has done drugs and drinks, but his personal life with women and drugs is seen as so interesting that he became known for "winning".
DeleteI like your Bonnie and Clyde thought. I believe you can even take it form such brutal criminals to our social media today. Who do we see in the magazine and papers, usually a star who just ran into the law, got another DUI. These stars are thrown across the news lines getting great publicide. Even when they get into jail most can just buy their way out so really their wrong doings and they are never really punished, just another way foul is fair.
DeleteIn the play, Macbeth, the theme is "fair is foul and foul is fair." In other words, the "good" people will be punished and the "bad" people will be rewarded. An excellent example of this is the film 'Law Abiding Citizen.' For those who have not seen this film, Gerard Butler, playing an actor named 'Clyde,' is put through an extremely traumatic event; Clyde's wife and daughter are murdered in-front of him. The actual murderer, Clarence Darby, is sent free due to a lack of evidence to prove Darby's guilt. Clyde, an innocent man, feels incredibly betrayed by the justice system, and the rest of the movie is Clyde's attempt to destroy the justice department. The theme of Macbeth relates to the movie, in that Clarence Darby, the murderer of Clydes wife and daughter, is rewarded with a free release from any criminal penalty. Clyde, the innocent "good guy", is punished twice: his wife and daughter are now dead and the murderer of them was released without any punishment for his actions.
ReplyDeleteI love how you have incorporated popular films in to this discussion. I believe that it makes it much easier to understand the idea of “fair is foul and foul is fair”, as well as it opens up a doorway to millions of examples. One such example, which I immediately thought of when I read your response, would be the Bourne movies. Jason Bourne suffers from amnesia and is simply trying to find himself. He is fairly innocent, due to his amnesia. But, the US Government is under the impression that he has gone rogue. Now, they spend the entire movie trying to hunt him down and kill him, as he struggles to stay alive. It is easy to see that many movies tend to heavily tie in to this theme.
Deletei completely agree with your point, the murderer was smart enough to leave no evidence to prove that he did it leaving clyde to try and convince the justice system that he witnessed it which is hard to do when you have no proof that clarence darby did it leaving him to be innocent which fits perfectly with fair is foul and foul is fair.
DeleteIn the play Macbeth, the theme is "fair is foul and foul is fair." Which means that if you do something good you will be punished and if you do something bad you will be rewarded. Some people know they are doing something wrong, but they will always think about the good stuff that will happen. This theme does shows itself in society. For example, when someone is cheating on a test they will not think about the wrong they are doing, they will think that they are going to get a really high mark on their test and will get a good grade. Another example is McDonald,they buy the cheapest ingredients and very unhealthy stuff and put it in their food and sell it to their customers. So when their customers buy it not knowing what's in there, they start to eat and like it and keep coming back for more and all McDonald's thinks about is the good thing which is the money and not the bad thing which is people getting unhealthy.
ReplyDeletei get what your saying but i don't think that is a case of them actually thinking the bad IS good. For example, with Mcdonalds its not really bad that they order cheap ingrediants, its unhealthy, but its not really a case where bad is viewed upon as good
Deletecoming from someone whos loves mcdonolds i agree with this idea, the crap them put in it, all the salt and grease makes it taste soo good but dose nothing for you health wise
DeleteI get what Ruman is saying and agree with what he's saying about McDonald's, as a multimillion dollar corporation they don't care about the negative health affects of their products (or atleast they dont seem to care due to all the unhealthy food they're selling) and this is seen as bad to a large number of people, but from a business point of view the fact that they can use these cheap low quality ingredients and still end up with a product people will continue to eat on a daily basis thereby making themselves a massive profit which they see as good.
DeleteYeah i also agree with the idea of Mcdonalds, the organization makes so much food around the world and spends so much money on adverstising it, making it look delicious so everyone will buy it. But, some people dont realise how terrible it is for you and your body, but since it tastes so good, you'll come back another time for more. Mcdonalds knows how bad they're food is, yet they continue to make food and sell it to poeple and hurt them, so they cann make even more money. Mcdonalds is like a drug, it's good at the time, it's addicting, it tastes good and it will hurt you later.
DeleteI agree with the first part of what you saying because cheating is immoral and is obviously not condoned by those giving the exams. In the second exmaple using Macdonalds restaurants they are not doing anything illegal. The government has approved the food they are selling as being fit for human consumption. It is up to the indiviual person to choose to eat at Macdonalds or not.
DeleteIn the play Macbeth, the theme is "fair is foul and foul is fair". Although specific aspects of this theme are debatable, the general idea is agreeable. Whether it be by influencing media, or our peers, sometimes people who have the wrong intentions don't get punished. For example, if we take our everyday high school life into consideration, a lot of this happens. Adolescents get bullied hourly all around the world, and most bullies get away with it. Does this make it okay? Just because they are not punished, they take advantage of that and continue. Some bullies even gain popularity and social status when they bring other down. What about the person that's getting harassed? Are their intentions good or bad? Is being different a bad thing? This is my take on the theme of "fair is foul, and foul is fair".
ReplyDeleteI like how you used high school experience with this. It can be related to easily for a lot of people, because lets face it, most people have been bullied in some sort of manner, or even been the bully. The sad part is that you're right. Why is it fair that a bully is seen as "cool" when they are hurting someone in such a cruel way. It ties in with, how is it fair that after so many years of fighting for women's and or gay rights, so many people still criticize it. But then again you have to ask the question, is it wrong for someone to criticize if it is against someone's religion and they believe in it. Just something to think about.
DeleteI agree with you completely, Jasmine. The way you related it to high school makes it relate-able to many individuals. (Like Megan said). Bullying is a huge issue everywhere you look, worldwide, it's always seen. It'll always be there, and will never be completely stopped. It's depressing how some individuals can be picked on to such an extreme that they believe their only option is suicide. It's not fair to those poor innocent people that aren't all that different from anyone else. Suicide rates are continuously increasing over time in the United States for example. Many of those people are adolescents that are between the ages of 14-24 and appear to commit suicide due to the pressure of growing up. Also playing a role is bullying. This individual being bullied may seem alright on the outside, (being able to hide their pain well) but on the inside they are torn and confused. It's not a good thing to bully someone because you don't know what their life is like, and the struggles they are going through. One's bullying can be the final breaking point ending their life forever. That person could have accomplished and could have done so much in life. If only they could have pushed through the pain that the bullies made for them every day. These innocent people don't deserve that pain and therefore it's not fair or right.
DeleteI agree with your idea completely. Bullying is common thing seen in many places of the world. It is a sad but true reality especially in high school. Unfortunately, many individuals do not raise a voice and bullies are able to continue because of this. The "good" suffer while the "bad" are able to continue as though nothing is wrong. Although there has been awareness on the topic of bullying it still happens.
DeleteToday, it is often seen in the form of cyber-bullying because the internet acts a barrier for many individuals from what they write.
Plus, Nicola your statement on the amount of teen suicides opens your eyes on how cruel bullying can be.
Tavleen Srah
The theme "fair is foul and foul is fair" at first seems to contradict itself in meaning but as one thinks about it further it begins to make sense. It is really saying that those who are good and work hard to make a living do not always have luck favour them while those who have had things handed to them all their life have luck favouring them in the end. An example seen in our society is in the music industry.There are many musicians who work incredibly hard and are extremely talented but never get the recognition or "make it" into the music industry. While there are many popular artists currently who are not talented but become famous because they have money and connections. An example of this is Rebecca Black. Because she comes from a wealthy family she was able to record a single in a studio and became famous due to a song that was popular for all the wrong reasons.She does not hold the talent so many unpopular musicians have. This theme is reoccurring in this industry.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you. There are so many untalented artists out there, and to me, it makes absolutely no sense. I feel bad for people who really want to make a career out of music, and it's their passion. Yet, they suffer incredibly financially, and it's painful to see. Yet people like Lana Del Rey are so bad, that they become famous for it. It's just not right...
DeleteTavleen, I agree with your statement about people getting famous purely because they have the money but there definitely are people who get famous because they are talented and have passion too. There are also people who aren't interested in getting really "famous" in the music industry but they have fans and they are happy with their success even though they aren't known around the globe. I think that shows the artist's true passion and shows they are making music for the love of making music. Also Jessica I would just like to point out that many people do think Lana Del Ray is talented it all depends on a person's personal preference in music styles. She is simply offering a different sound that people may not be used to.
DeleteERIC HILLMAN-In the play Macbeth the theme is "Fair is foul and foul is fair". This theme means that when someone does good they're punished and when someone does bad they are rewarded, something normally good is bad and something bad is now good. This causes people to go do bad things to be rewarded and happy, so the actual good people that do good, get punished for they're good. This theme is still seen in today's society, for example people that build roads. They are doing good by giving people new and improved ways to easily get to their destination, but sometimes those good roads are being built over top of a stream, killing the beautiful life and nature that was their before. Another example of this would be the Greenpeace ship that goes out into the ocean and hunts down Japanese whale hunting ships and sinks them. This is bad because the peace ships are destroying other ships and possibly hurting people, but they are also saving many endangered whales form being killed, Foul is fair.
ReplyDeleteI quite like the idea of your first example, Eric. Not only does your idea involve roads, but the entire idea of pollution itself and how we are an industrial nation. Humans do an incredible amount of damage to our environment for our own benefit. In natures perspective, the "bad" is being rewarded. Humans have grown to take alot more than they need. They only flaw I see in this argument, or any argument on this page, is what defines being the "Good guy" or the "fair." For example, even though we all know we are polluting our Earth, and I admit to this aswell, very few people actually do something about it; most of us just kind of accept it. We, as humans, assume we are the "Good," or the superior species, but what really defines that? Its all perspective.
Deletei agree with what you are saying about the roads being made a killing the animals environment. Where ever they make roads, cars will follow and cars will make more pollution.The worlers are making roads so that people can get to places very easily, which they think is good. But what they don't know is that they are hurting the animals natural habitats, which is bad. Roads are good, but hurting animals are not.
Delete-Ruman Takhar
I agree with your point on the roads. It is showing the good of the people making the roads but also showing the bad side to it. Roads are helpful for transportation purposes, but hurting animals and killing our Earth isn't a bonus. I also agree with Luke's reply. Many people say "we need to stop pollution and save our planet" but no one ever does anything. Does that really make us "good" people just because we have an idea?
DeleteYou have pointed out something very intelligent here, and that is environmental issues. Now that I find myself thinking about it, so many have that theme in them. As you know I am an avid cyclist, particularly mountain biking. Mountain biking is an excellent sport in that it is a method of transportation which does not pollute like a vehicle. Furthermore it is wonderful exercise! Personally, I also think that it is a great way to get out in to the natural world and discover the beauty of it. But, as “good” as it may seem, you must be careful when trail building and such. There is so much natural life that may be disturbed if you are not careful enough. The reality is, lots of people aren’t careful enough. In turn, that could be considered “bad”. So, all of the good people out there who are being active and cycling, could be negatively affecting our environment.
ReplyDeleteThe theme "fair is foul and foul is fair " from Macbeth is completely subjective in the way that it is seen around us in our culture, both in media or literature and in real life. This is purely based on the fact that "fair" meaning "good" and "foul" meaning "bad" cannot be divided into two separate groups of people because the notion of good and evil is based on how others perceive you and can be easily swayed by gossip and other nonsense. Also people are not perfect beings and everyone no matter how good or evil has both the ability to be good AND the ability to be evil. This is probably one of the basic internal struggles of mankind. For example everyone probably knows the basic plot of The Wizard of Oz and could probably tell you that the evil force is in fact without a doubt the Wicked Witch of the West but for the people that have read the parallel novel, Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, she definitely is not. In Wicked her backstory is explored and she starts off as a truly wonderful girl who has all the right intentions allowing the reader to feel sympathy for her in the end. This clearly shows that the theme can change especially when more light is shone on the situation or the situation is simply looked at from a different perspective.
ReplyDeleteIn the play "Macbeth", the theme is "fair is foul and foul is fair". This can be interpreted as if good people are punished and that bad people are rewarded. A good example of this would be in the movie "ShawShank Redemption", in which a good man is wrongfully convicted and sentenced in prison for years. The prison warden is a bad man but yet he is rewarded. Also, the real killer that killed Andy, played by Tim Robbins wife and her lover was never convicted for the double murder. In real life, there are many people wrongfully sentenced to prison such as Steven Truscott and Daniel Milgaard. If there is a real justice in society, then the police and courts must be more careful in presenting and gathering evidence against someone accused of a crime.
DeleteI do agree with you that the police and court can be more careful in the way that they convict people but do you think it is possible for them to be perfect? They are humans judging other humans so they will probably make mistakes. Also how would you catagorize a "good" or "bad" man. For example what if someone stole something but it was found out later that there children were starving. That person still technically did something wrong but as a judge would you convict him?
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ReplyDeleteIn the play "Macbeth", the theme "Fair is foul and foul is fair" is a paradox that means good shall be punished and evil will be rewarded, this type of paradox is generally found throughout our society because of the fact that it relies on the interpretation of the others. Something that is "good" such as raising taxes to fund schooling and government buildings can definitely have positive results in the perspective of those who support such actions, but at the same time, can be viewed as "bad" to families struggling financially, and teenagers finding local apartments, from people who resent taxes. Another example of a "good" and "bad" situation would be Joseph Kony and his ambition of purifying Acholi people, who were an ethnic group in Uganda. Although many people are against his actions, his cause was just to those who followed and believed his actions were "good". I also don't think that this type of paradox will not be changeing anytime soon, because of the diversity of peoples perspectives, it will just vary between different biased opinions, and will never reach a set definition of "good" or "bad".
ReplyDeleteI agree with what your saying about opinion and peoples individual perception of what is "good" or "bad" and I think this issue of difference of opinion is going to play a huge roll throughout this play. I also like your example of the tax collection, which makes me think of the recent HST dispute, which was seen as both good and bad because of the possible benefits for B.C. as a whole and at the same time most people were against the new tax due to the high cost to everyone on a personal level.
DeleteI agree with what your stating here because your opinion simply reflects the imperfection of the world we live in. There is an old saying "You can please some of the people some of the time but you can not please all of the people all of the time." Because of different people's opinons and perspectives a thing can be viewed as good or bad while in reality it is good for some people and bad for others.
DeleteI was thinking for a while about a way that good people could be punished and bad people, rewarded. Then I thought of health care in the United States. Insurance companies there are ruthless and do not care about the citizens at all. In a movie called, "Sicko," it shows the secrets and scams that insurance companies run on a day to day basis. In Canada, I truly don't think we understand and appreciate how lucky we are to have health care covered the way we do. For example in the US, if it turns out you are diagnosed with a serious illness. You don't have the money to pay for treatment, so you talk to your insurance company. You think you could trust them with your health and well-being? Wrong. The companies personally hire individuals to find an "excuse," in your medical history, to make sure they DO NOT have to cover your expenses. This means that the individual will have to pay out of their own pocket. Depending on the severity of the illness, it can cost an upwards of millions of dollars. That person will then be in debt, and if not being able to keep up with the extensive loans, they will get their life taken away from them by the banks. It's really sad. My mom had a friend who had a baby at 23 weeks in term which is about half the time a baby is supposed to stay in the woman's stomach. Her baby ended up living in ICU for many months while it developed it's lungs, heart etc... Canadian healthcare covered the cost of the 4 million dollars it took to keep that baby alive. If she happened to be in the US, she would be stuck to pay for the cost herself for the rest of her life. The good people are the ones who need help from the insurance companies, but are punished with a horrible debt for the rest of their lives. While the insurance companies that are bad, are rewarded with paying out less money to help people then necessary. This is a problem that faces the United States citizens everyday, and at this rate, won't be solved anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteNicola thanks so much for that it was very informative and had many facts that I didn't know about. I really agree with the fact that in Canada we are incredibly privileged to have the health care system that we do and this just makes me so much more appreciative of it. This also really solidifies the theme and makes me actually very frightened that insurance companies can even have the morality to take advantage of people who are sick.
DeleteInsurance companies in the states are definitely brutal. I have heard so many horrid stories since about half my family is American. If you're not in the less than 1% of the rich population, you won't have health care that covers you 100% for your visits you need. It is very expensive. With the US struggling as the days continue on, even less people will be able to have enough money to get a check-up from their doctors. It's a sad but true.
DeleteIf you think about it though is it the insurance companies that are to blame or is it the government? For example if the government put in the tax money toward programs to help people with health problems, like what we have in Canada would that change anything? Also it kind of makes me wonder where the money that could be used on these programs is ending up.
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