Tuesday, April 17, 2012
Question #2: Gender: Forward or Backward? (Block B)
The idea of Gender and its stereotypical roles are a big part of the theme of the play. What do you believe Shakespeare's message is about gender? How do the characters reflect or not reflect your theme? Is Shakespeare an advocate for gender equality or is he continuing the stereotype? Use multiple examples (both male and female) to support you idea.
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Shakespears message about gender is very clear. Women are bad. in the first scene of act 1 we are introduced to 3 witches (who are women) that want to meet macbeth, It doesnt take long for us to realize the witches are evil. It is the witches that bring up the idea of power to Macbeth which will cause his downfall. However, it is also Lady Macbeth who is "bad", when Macbeth backs out on the idea of killing the king she questions his masculinity, manipulating him and guilting him.
ReplyDeleteIf we think about the era Macbeth is set in men were extremely dominant but Shakespeare has reversed this idea. We would think Macbeth would dominate over his wife and control what she does but it is his wife that is the ruler in the household. Both Genders want(or crave) power and I think thats why they act so "masculine" thats why I think Shakespear is not continueing the stereotype. He is thinking of women just as people (and basically just unsexed them himself) without all the ideas of how things should be he is showing us that all humanbeings have the same traits (wanting power etc).
The idea of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth Kind of reminds me of Adam and Eve. Eve tempted Adam to eat the fruit making women the first sinners.
it is lady macbeth that manipulates Macbeth to kill the king (his first sin) making women the source of all evil.
:(
I think the comparison between Lady Macbeth/Macbeth and Adam/Eve is very accurate. Lady Macbeth envisioned a life of power and glory and it was this desire that compelled her to take action. She tempts Macbeth with the possibility of power and being king, and enforces it by saying that they should not wait for chance to fulfill the prophecy. Eve was tempted by the Serpent and the promise to become more like God, given she ate the fruit. It was Eve who successfully convinced Adam to take a bite as well. This resulted in banishment from the Garden of Eden and they was cast away to bear the pains of sickness and death. Lady Macbeth attacked Macbeth’s weak points and pushed him towards murdering Duncan. After the deed was done, there was no turning back. Macbeth became the tragic hero as his ambition and overconfidence drove him to murder. Both women were portrayed as evil temptresses, and it is shown in their actions that women desire power and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it. These qualities are thought to be on the masculine side and Shakespeare demonstrates gender equality by putting those qualities in Lady Macbeth.
DeleteI too, along with Zoey, think that your comparison involving Lady Macbeth & Macbeth and Adam & Eve was quite accurate. Eve and the character of Lady Macbeth are both the ones who tempted the male of the stories. That they would be given more power if they did what was considered "wrong", which in Lady Macbeth's case was murder, which of course is always wrong. No matter what the outcome. Eve's decision was not as clear though as taking an apple is no where near as bad in comparison to a murder, but the apple was off of God's tree, therefore making it a horrible action. Again, as Zoey said, it appears that women are willing to do anything in order to get the power and wealth that they think they deserve.
DeleteShakesphere lived in a very steriotypical time which was surronded by gender stereotypes. the stereotypes are that women can make men do what ever they want and what woman want is ussally bad according to shakespheres time. So far all the woman chaarctors in shakesphere have been evil. Lady Macbeth and the witches. this stereotype is cemented by the bible where eve tempted adam with the forrbidden fruit and adam takes it so in the bible Eve is considered responsibble for mankinds downfall
ReplyDeleteI don't think that is the stereotype around the gender in those times. I believe the stereotype in those days was that women were thought to be inferior to men. That they should only be used for household chores, having and raising children and pleasing men. They were thought of as weak and feeble because most didn't possess the mindset to act as man acts. They didn't have the emotional and mental capabilities to do whatever needed to be done to get what they wanted. They were too peaceful and loving for murder, or any sort of scheming. Back in those times, there weren't many women in the armies. Especially the front lines, men thought they were too "soft" and frail for such tasks.
DeleteI agree tanner, shakespear did live in a very very steriotypical time. The men had to be tough and the woment needed to be dainty and frail. Some poeple today are the exact oposite, like ive seen women act as if they were men and men act as if they were women! I also agree with Dion's point where he said "women were used for household chores" that is a very true fact back in those days, they werent aloud to fight in wars so they had to stay and keep after the home.
DeleteWell there weren't >any< women in the army..a woman in the army was "wrong" only tough guys can be in the army!(back then at least)
Delete. :/ and no, not because we were to weak to act as men, guys were just always on top and we had no say in it. They were allowed to vote before us, they told us what to do and we had no say in it. Women were prizes. we have the mindset to act human but we want to follow the perfect image as what we are supposed to be.
I think thats what Shakespeare is getting to..Without our outside appearance and different structure of our bodies..if all that was removed and we were just "human" with no sex, no difference in the "down there" or "forbidden zone" we act the same, we have the same desires (power, wealth, fame etc..)
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DeleteI can see why you could derive that conclusion but I don't think it's entirely accurate. Yes there were a lot of gender stereotypes in his time but I think you're getting what the stereotype was wrong.
DeleteI agree with both Tanner and Kathleen with their example that Macbeth and Lady Macbeth portray Adam and Eve and that Lady Macbeth tempts Macbeth. To add on to that point I also think that the three witches have a large part in the temptation of Macbeth, not only Lady Macbeth. So, the witches alongside Lady Macbeth both represent Eve
Delete:( Tanner, I didnt believe you when you said you copied me but then I saw this </3... you could have easily agreed with my point with adam and eve ;_;
ReplyDeleteyou had a good point
Deletesorry
I believe that Shakespeare's message with the whole idea of the gender switch is to show us that anyone is capable of anything. Just because a girl is a girl doesn't mean that they HAVE to follow the ideals that come with that gender, that society and the media has bestowed upon them. The same can be said for males, just because they are male doesn't necessarily mean they HAVE to do things that a typical male would do. For example just because a person is a girl doesn't mean they can't go to the gym and lift some weights. It also doesn't mean that they have to always be the ones at home taking care of the kids while the fathers are at work. Just because a person is a boy it doesn't mean they are restricted from doing partaking in "guy like" activities such as lifting weights, watching sports, playing videogames, etc. A boy could like "chick flicks" a girl can like to watch UFC. A girl is just as capable of committing an act of murder compared to that of a man. The only reason no one ever suspects a female is because of the stereotype that all girls are peaceful, mature, kind, caring all the warm soft feelings that guys aren't supposed to be, and have all the emotions guys aren't supposed to feel. Your gender doesn't restrict your interests, or hobbies. In short I believe Shakespeare is trying to tell us that gender doesn't restrict our likes, dislikes and the things we are capable of.
ReplyDeleteThe characters reflect the theme very well. Again touching on the whole idea of "fair is foul and foul is fair" women are usually thought of as "fair" especially in this time set. The phrase "fair maiden" is used to describe a pretty women. As well the ideals in this point in time were that women were inferior to men and that they should only be responsible for chores around the house, raising children and pleasing the man. They weren't thought to be capable of any sort of act of violence because of how (no offense to any females) feeble females are compared to a male. No one would ever think a tiny 90 pound girl for example could strangle a great big 180 pound man. The fact that Shakespeare reversed the roles for Lady Macbeth and Macbeth is the perfect example of the theme. Lady Macbeth a women, which is supposed to be thought of as "fair" has become "foul" and has taken on the ambitions and capabilities of a man. While, Macbeth who many would think would kill the king and prince once hearing that it is his fate to become kind is told to just sit back and "look pretty". Told what to do by his wife and that she will take care of it. The whole idea of the man running the household is reversed.
I believe Shakespeare is trying for gender equality. The message is that women are just as capable as men. Whether it be committing murder, fighting, joining a gang, etc. But at the same time he is also trying to say its okay for a male to have a softer side, instead of trying to be tough all the time its okay to perhaps shed a tear, or show love for your wife or girlfriend. Men are no superior to women. Yes perhaps men are genetically going to be stronger, or faster because of how we are built. But women are smarter, logical this levels out the playing field. You rarely ever see two girls getting into a fight for the last slice of pizza, or for looking at someone weird or for insulting their favourite sports teams.
To add on to my first paragraph I would also like to point out how women are more sly then men. They know how to fool the average man or manipulate the people around them. If a women committed a crime I believe it would be much more difficult to find evidence against them and to convict them. There are many more male convicts then there are female convicts in our prison system nowadays.
DeleteThe first sentence of the first paragraph to me is the answer to the question, "is to show us that anyone is capable of anything." An example of this is when macbeth was supposed to kill the king and he couldnt do it so lady macbeth said that she would do it for him even though that the "man" is supposed to be the one that goes out and does these things. Lady macbeth shows that even though shes a women she can attempt the tasks that men do.
DeleteAlthough Shakespeare may seem to be breaking out of the gender mold with his character Lady Macbeth, he is merely just reinforcing a stereotype: a woman with power is either evil, more man than woman, or both. A man in power, on the other hand, is not necessarily so.
ReplyDeleteLady Macbeth is an intriguing character. Determined, headstrong, and commanding, there is no question who wears the pants in the Macbeth household. Her role in the family is very much that of the stereotypical, dominant male, although she relies on playing with Macbeth's emotions rather than using force to get what she wants.
Lady Macbeth seems to be wicked to the very core.... but is she? In Act One, Scene 5, Shakespeare implies otherwise. In a particularly dramatic part of the scene, Lady Macbeth seems to be trying to communicate with demons, or some other kinds of malevolent beings. She cries out to spirits to "unsex me here" (line 45). When she screams this, she is asking the spirits to remove from her everything that makes her female. She thinks that when the time comes, her supposed "female nature" may stop her from murdering King Duncan.
In this dramatic scene, Shakespeare actually manages to force a stereotype upon Lady Macbeth: that of the weak, defenceless female, who can't get anything done without a man. After all, Lady Macbeth is a headstrong, clever, utterly evil character. Her being female should not make a difference in her emotions; she has proven herself cold and callous already. And yet, Lady Macbeth fears that what she perceives to be the feminine side of her will stop her from getting what she wants. This reflects Shakespeare's views on the internal, emotional weakness of females.
It is also interesting to note that every single woman in the play thus far has been evil and powerful. The three witches, with their remarkable prophetic and magical abilities, have foul intentions. Lady Macbeth, who exerts a formidable amount of influence and power over her malleable husband, considering the traditional role of women within society, is cruel and callous. She tempts him into the potential of committing a horrendous act; the murder of King Duncan himself.
In conclusion, Shakespeare, in his portrayal of the characters, is continuing the stereotype rather than breaking from the mold. The evilness of all of the powerful women in the play only highlights this. And even Lady Macbeth, terrible, powerful woman that she is, is potentially crippled by her "female nature".
Although you do make several interesting points, you need to see that Shakespeare was trying to break out of the gender mould. Yes, the stereotype at the time for women was that they were weak and Lady MacBeth did ask daemons to "unsex" her. However, the fact that Lady MacBeth did ask demons to unsex her goes against your point that she wasn't cruel in the first place. If you want someone to die so badly just so you could get more power, even if said person is nice to you (as proven when Lady MacBeth and the King first meet in the story), that you would ask demons to take away any merciful feelings you may have, you're still very cruel. If cruel is a bad word to use, then "insanely bad jerk" would do nicely (god I hate that this has to be PG). Women at that time were meant to be nice and obedient, so the fact that she did this goes against the whole "nice" thing thus breaking the gender mould. Even the three witches started out independent and cruel. Another case that breaks through the gender mould was, how you said, "...(Lady MacBeth)wears the pants in the household". The stereotype at that time (as Kathleen and you said) was that women were supposed to be obedient housewives. Because Lady MacBeth isn't obedient but instead manipulative (which is almost the exact opposite of obedient), and so are the three witches, that breaks through the gender mould.
DeleteFirst of all, I'd like to address your first argument: that I said she "wasn't cruel in the first place." That is untrue. In various parts of my argument, I pointed out that she was cruel and callous in the way she dealt with the world. I would not argue that Lady Macbeth was a nice person; none of her actions have ever indicated that she was anything but pure evil.
DeleteMy point with the whole "unsexing" thing was that it took a powerful character who seemed perfectly comfortable with murder, and made the murdering of King Duncan into a challenge, simply because of gender. Like I said before, Lady Macbeth is not a nice person. And yet, she feels vulnerable, for the very simple reason that she is female, as though she is not in control of her emotions because of it.
Yes, it is true that for the most part, Lady Macbeth breaks from the "kind and obedient" stereotype. There are times when she acts kind and obedient (such as when she is a seemingly gracious hostess to King Duncan upon his visit), but her inner wickedness is simply masked.
However, the "kind and obedient" woman is not the only stereotype that exists. What about the stereotype of the manipulative, convincing woman who leads her husband astray? That stereotype has been prevalent ever since the tale of Adam and Eve.
If anything, one could argue that Lady Macbeth is a mash of two different stereotypes: the obedient wife (which is basically her mask to outsiders) and the convincing, manipulative woman.
And yes, I did say that Lady Macbeth wears the pants, but her control over Macbeth is sly and subtle. She is very convincing, much like, as I mentioned before, Eve. Also, take a look at how she convinces him to do things. She basically cries and whines.
While we are on the topic of the three witches, I think they are like the snake in Adam and Eve. They lead Macbeth astray by basically convincing Lady Macbeth to force Macbeth into the murder of King Duncan, through their prophecies. They also fit in with the loathsome, horrible woman stereotype.
And finally, this is completely off topic, but why is everyone spelling Macbeth, "MacBeth"? Is that actually how it's spelled?
In your argument you clearly stated that "Lady Macbeth seems to be wicked to the very core...but is she?...Shakespeare implies otherwise". This shows that you didn't think that Lady MacBeth was cruel in the first place. As for the "unsex me" part, did demons and spirits really take her emotions away? Did winged, fiery angles sweep up from hell and take away her feminine side? Was it ever implied? No, meaning she was always like it. She even said it herself that she almost didn't kill the person she was supposed to because he almost looked like her father.
DeleteAs for the obedience/manipulative thing, feminism is an extremely touchy subject. Social feminism suggests that women are being taken advantage of by being obedient housewives, making sandwiches and all that, however religious feminism suggests that women are manipulative beings. It is extremely hard to know what the most common believed stereotypes are, thus throwing the subject into the air. The only real way to tell is to know what Shakespeare's views on feminism was, but it's not like he's just going to come back from the dead. Because of this, I am going to accept the fact that you could be right, however I still believe I am correct.
Also for the "MacBeth" thing, evidently both spellings are incorrect here so I honestly don't know :/
I'm not saying that she isn't wicked, what I'm saying is that Shakespeare implies that there is a good (perhaps good is not the right word; more like emotional, or moral) part of her that cripples her, purely because she is female. Like I said, Lady Macbeth is not a good person. She has demonstrated that many times over. So for Shakespeare to take a strong character, set and resolute, and to present them as crippled by the stereotypical aspects of their gender is really quite interesting.
DeleteWhat I am saying is that, based on her actions and thoughts, there is absolutely no reason why Lady Macbeth should have had any trouble in murdering King Duncan. Why should her gender have anything to do with it?
And as for the "unsex" part, while we have absolutely no evidence that demons did not take it away, just is there is no evidence that they did. That part of the story was left open-ended for the reader to interpret themselves. The point is though, that it doesn't matter. Regardless of whether or not the "demons took her feminity away", the fact remains that she WANTED them to take it away, as though she was ashamed of it, and felt as though it was a weakness. What ultimately happens to her female side is pretty much irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make here.
I agree with your point about the various types of feminism, which is why I thought this was an interesting question. After all, there is more than one type of female stereotype; how are we supposed to know which one the question is referring to? Or, indeed, if the question is referring to all of them. As a result, I don't really think that there can be a "right" or "wrong" answer to this question, because of the way it was worded.
I don't think it's "MacBeth", because on the actual play itself, it's spelled "Macbeth", isn't it? I just found it odd to see that spelling variation floating around for no apparent reason.
I don't think that lady macbeth would be halted by her feminine nature i think when the time came to kill duncan she could have done it without doing her whole unsex me here thing. lady macbeth is a headstrong women and a very commanding presence which is why i think she really does not have any of this feminine nature that tessa talks about. Lady macbeth thinks that it might be there under her many layers but i just think its not there at all
Delete@Tanner
DeleteI am not saying that Lady Macbeth is necessarily crippled by her "feminine nature". What I'm thinking is that she THINKS that she could potentially be crippled by it. The point I was making is that she is a powerful character who thinks that her gender holds her back. Whether it does or not is irrelevant.
Her "feminine side" is not something that I just brought up for no reason. It was explicitly stated in the text, as something she viewed as a barrier, regardless if it technically existed or not. Basically, what I was trying to say with that was that Lady Macbeth saw herself as being female as an issue, when it should not have been, judging by the rest of her character.
What you need to keep in mind here is that this play is based on history. Shakespeare only had some sway in how the story unfolded, thus, the idea of Shakespeare leaving a hidden message about women in his play is very obscure. Because of this (and the time he lived in), we can't know for sure and the fact that we don't know what were his views on feminism and how women were being treated, none of us will ever know for sure.
DeleteAs for the Witches being women, that's not exactly sexism. Even now when someone says Witch you think of an ugly old women. Very rarely is it a man. It's like how everyone thinks demons are male. And yes, Shakespeare could have just as easily replaced witches with demons, what is more subtle to come across? An ugly old hag with messed hair or demon with horns and a tail poking out? And besides just because the female characters in a play are evil doesn't mean the writer hates women. In fact it is most common that plays feature a male antagonist but no one cries sexism at that. It's weird in which a cause so smiled upon is riddled with hypocrisy.
Also, you say that there is no proof that it didn't happen just as there is no proof that it did (for the unsexing part). This reminds me of the time I walked down East Hastings and I saw a supposed crack head screaming at glass window to save him. Perhaps the glass window could have saved him from an inner battle with demons for his soul. After all, I didn't see this supposed crack head do any drugs, so I have no proof otherwise.
As for your point of how Lady Macbeth asking demons to unsex her, and that her being a women should not impede her ability to murder, it was just a stereotype at the time, and he can't take the time to look over his plays to make sure there are no areas in which feminists can lash out at him. Right now if I were to hit a girl I would feel extremely bad about it and others would think less of me. If you were to hit a guy, on the other hand, you would be treated fairly normally as if a guy hit another guy. This is just another stereotype that is so common that it is hardly noticed (especially by feminists).
Don't believe me? A while back in Meshchovsk, Russia, a female hairdresser subdued a robber and tied him up in a back room. Instead of calling the police, she proceeded to rape him for three days. And yes, it was rape as the girl forced Viagra down the victims throat. After three days she let him go, and the robber went to the police about it. She called him a bastard because she bought him pants and gave him roughly $30. As this news spread to North America, people found this fascinating. So fascinating that several fan pages were formed, including some on Facebook.
Now if a man were to tie a girl up in a back room and rape her for three days straight, would he get a fan page? No, and rightfully so, because it's a terrible thing to do, even if you buy them pants after. But simply because it was a women, people thought rape was okay.
Point being is that there are stereotypes all around us that we tend not to notice, and I do believe that Shakespeare didn't spend his time looking at his plays for stereotypes.
And yes it is in fact Macbeth I looked in the book.
I'm not really sure if I am allowed to reply given that it is after six now (I was at the pool for two hours, and didn't really plan on replying. But you brought up something, and I do want to address your point.
DeleteSince we've argued about this for awhile, I will make this brief and say one thing: Shakespeare's Macbeth bears little resemblence to the real, history event. According to (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/macbeth.shtml), the Macbeth of Shakespeare was actually quite different from the real, live Macbeth. As a result, you can't really say that Shakespeare put no thought into the message he was sending about women and gender. There were no witches in the real Macbeth, and I'll have to look into it more, but I don't think that Lady Macbeth was the hateful woman the play portrayed her as. So I'll cap this all off and say that yes, there are stereotypes, and yes, if Lady Macbeth is supposed to be stereotypical, Shakespeare did it purposely.
But how was Lady Macbeth stereotypical in any way? This is the first time most of us have seen such a character besides Adam and Eve. Back in Shakespeare's time women were suppose to be obedient housewives. If anything, this character was a "hipster" (as in she wasn't mainstream). Yes you can relate it back to Adam and Eve, however, you can relate any story to a past story (an example is how George Lucas made Star Wars that was so close to Nazi Germany). Even if it was meant to be related to Adam and Eve, it is not very stereotypical, as the story was made 1500 years ago (from Shakespeare's time) and ideas do change drastically in that time. An example would be is that if you and I went back 1500 years ago and flew a plane, turned on a flash light, or even heal the broken bone of an animal (I kid you not) we would probably be burnt as witches unless we say we were angels in which we would be worshipped. Sure back when the bible was around women were considered to be the root of all evil, however in the time span of approximately 1500 years, women have changed form evil to obedient housewives, and now approximately 450 years after Shakespeare's time, women are far more independent (if I could go back in time and tell people of the future accomplishments of women, they probably would have laughed at me). Point being is that Shakespeare lived in a time where women were supposed to be obedient housewives, and Lady Macbeth being manipulative and having a "take-charge" attitude is far from stereotypical at the time.
DeleteI wasn't going to reply because I wasn't sure if I was allowed to, but I absolutely have to address some of these points. Sorry, Mr. O, if you're reading this; I will try not to write after the deadline from now on.
DeleteStefan, firstly, I will say that I am not simply pulling this Adam and Eve thing out of nowhere. Have you ever heard of the author Victor Hugo? He was a great French author, who wrote books like the Hunchback of Notre-Dame and Les Misérables. In our Macbeth books, there is a quote by him regarding Lady Macbeth (also known as Gruoch). "This Eve tempts this Adam. Once Macbeth has taken the first bite, he is lost. The first thing that Adam produces with Eve is Cain. The first thing that Macbeth accomplishes with Gruoch is murder." I don't have my book handy, and so therefore cannot give a page number, but I'll be sure to do so when I can. My point is that Kathleen and I are not the only people to compare Lady Macbeth to Eve; even a very analytical mind has come up with that idea too.
The idea that the Bible has not created stereotypes doesn't make much sense, once you think about it. Sure, the Bible was written far before Shakespeare's time. But you have to take into account that people in Shakespeare's time were very religious. Christianity has been, and is still, a very important religion in many societies. It is widely read... why would it not create stereotypes? And in the Bible, there are many examples of treacherous, deceptive women.
A good example of one is Delilah, from Samson and Delilah. She was an evil, power-lusting woman who actually betrayed her husband's secret of strength (his long, lustrous hair) to his enemies, resulting in his death. (http://www.bible-topten.com/bad_women.htm#Ahab)
And the evil women do not stop there. There was also Jezebel, queen of Israel, who arranged for the death of a man just to get her hands on his land. (http://www.bible-topten.com/bad_women.htm#David). Those are only a couple of examples, but they demonstrate that evil, powerful women were a common theme in the Bible.
Also, to call Eve "hipster" is absolutely ludicrous. Go up to just about anyone on the street, and ask them their religion. If they are not Christian, ask them this: do you know the story of Adam and Eve? I can nearly guarantee you that they will say yes. It is a very famous story; I have not met a single person who does not know it. And this is today, where our society is less centered around Christianity than in the past. Adam and Eve was a very famous story, and remains a very famous story today.
Yes, the times are changing, but the Bible was very important in Shakespeare's time. People were still very superstitious and God-fearing, then. Shakespeare lived between 1564 and 1616. The SALEM WITCH TRIALS happened in 1692, which are an example of taking one's religion to the extreme. The Bible was still taken very seriously back then. Had you, as a hypothetical time traveler, travelled back to Shakespeare's time, you would probably still be burned as a witch.
Basically, in essence, what I am saying is that Shakespeare's society still had a very negative opinion on women at that time, part of which was derived from the Bible. I compared Lady Macbeth to Eve for a reason; the Bible was VERY important back then.
I Believe that shakespears message about gender is that it dosent matter if your a women or a male, you can do whatever you want. Such as when lady macbeth said that she would go and kill the king because macbeth wouldnt do it himself is a good example of the capability of what i believe is shakespears message about gender. Males are supposed to be the hard acting, brutal, tough people in this case and the women are supposed to just be the "bystanders" if you will.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with what your saying Cory. Gender doesn't dictate what a person thinks, does or is capable of. Yes, most people are form to the stereotypes of society. Such as a girl who is a cheerleader must be an airhead, or a guy who plays football can't be intelligent. However, they're are others who think outside the box and do what they wish because of their own personal interests. Nothing to do with their gender or society.
DeleteI completely agree with what you said there. You got it right. Lady MacBeth just takes that idea and throws it out the window. She can be all cold and brutal
DeleteI believe the Shakespeare's message about women is that they can do what men can do. If you were to look at history books, you find that all the tyrants and "extremely bad jerks" were men. Although now we have libraries filled with the detailed history of our Earth, even before humans were around,people still had a fairly firm grasp on the past in Shakespeare's time. Also, a lot of plays in that time were centralized around men doing bad things, as a lot of plays were based on history. He, on the other hand, wanted to show through his work that women can do what men can do. The way he chose to do this is by making MacBeth ambitious yet fairly trustworthy, while making Lady MacBeth cruel yet persuasive. He did this so he could follow the guidelines of "Adam and Eve", where the women temps the man into doing something bad. The characters do fit into the theme of "fair is foul and foul is fair" because women were thought to be sweet and kind hearted (as the King treated Lady MacBeth because he didn't know she wasn't innocent)but as it turns out all the women were manipulative in some way. Like how Lady MacBeth manipulated MacBeth to kill the King so she could be Queen, or how the three witches maniplated MacBeth to his death. I do believe Shakespeare was and advocate for gender equality because, as said before, he wanted to prove that men and women were capable of doing the same thing, whether it's good or bad.
ReplyDeleteAs I agree with you that all women are manipulative in some way, I would also like to point out that both Lady Macbeth and the Weird Sisters seem to have a lot of freedom. The Weird Sisters are not bind to any men's(or husbands') control. They are able to travel freely as they wish, or even play silly revenge games, such as punishing a wife's life because she will not share her chestnut with one of the withces. As for Lady Macbeth, she basically is the one in charge of the castle when her husband is not around. Even though her husband is back, she is still able to move around freely at the house, and giving wild suggestions, such as the murdering of Duncan. Women were thought to not have any freedom in the past; however, by showing this reversal, Shakespeare presents gender equality.
DeleteI think Shakespeare leans more to gender equality.
ReplyDeleteAs you may recall, the witches were not women nor men- as Banquo said in the second act- so you cant say he thinks women are evil. And even if they were women, shakespeare shows them as powerful witches that tell prophecies.
And if shakespeare didn't believe in gender equality, he wouldn't have had Lady Macbeth take such a big part in the murder of Duncan, and have Macbeth himself so hesitant in killing him. If you believed in gender superiority, men are suppose to be the strong ones, women not there to take charge.
But obviously in the planning and murder of Duncan Lady Macbeth was the strong one taking charge. From fooling Duncan in the beginning by being so Kind to gain his trust to actually planning on how Duncan was to be killed, and how to frame the guards. That shows a strong women character that otherwise wouldn't be shown if women were not equal to men.
I think shakespeare believes anyone can do anything, no matter if they are male or female.
I somewhat agree with you. I do think that Shakespeare believe in gender equality but at the same time he knew that gender wasn't really equal at that time. I think he present the play in a way that we can easily see that each character has their unique way of being stereo on the outside and the completely different way of thinking.
DeleteAnd for people who said Shakespeare lived in a time where women weren't as important as men, I don't think that matters.
ReplyDeleteAll through time there have been strong female leaders. Cleopatea, Joan de arc, queen Elizabeth...
Shakespeare was already a controversial writer and I don't think he would care about stereotypes of the time. He had his own thoughts and ideas.
didnt they have "royal blood" or something?
DeleteIf the world had to vote for a female leader we wouldnt get one..thats why we dont have one. We've never had one by choice..
Yes, layla but we would have a female leader once every few hundred years, never a line of them. All of those women you just listed were from different time eras. He did care about the stereotypes of the time, and he didn't agree with them. Thats the whole reason for the gender switch in the play Macbeth. To show that women and men were equal on all levels.
DeleteIve been thinking a lot about gender inequality (its always bugged me, the idea that we carry the next generation in our stomachs for 9 months but get mistreated :/ youd think women would be praised like goddesses)
ReplyDeleteWomen werent as important as men back then. We had no rights for a long time, we werent allowed to vote and back then all our purpose was to get married, become an obedient housewife and have as many children as possible. In ancient Greece(thats where it started i think?) and medieval times we were controlled by our fathers and when we were married we were controlled by our husbands. Women rarely left the house (or at least the average women couldnt, im pretty sure a rich high-class woman had more freedom from what i remember :3) we werent allowed to wear simple things like pants, a lot of us didnt get education (we were taught household things), we werent allowed in some jobs because we were women. Hes trying to get rid of the stereotype..or something. we havent even had a female president yet :(its still here, even today. Gender inequality.
On the bright side we can enjoy the small things in life like pants :)
'for the last several years, we have been living in an era where a record number of female leaders are holding power simultaneously'
ReplyDeleteFor those who claim we only have a female leader once every few hundred years, I'm sure you could only count both male and female leaders you may know of on two hands. Just because they hadn't made news doesn't mean they aren't there.
There are strong women leaders and icons everywhere. Oprah, Tyra, princess Diana, Margeret Thatcher...
In ancient Greece if you were a male who wasn't married by the time you were 30, you were no longer allowed to vote and I watch sporting events. So yeah, people are against guys too.
The world has seen many many many female presidents, just because it is out of some people's comfort zones to actually look beyond America doesn't mean the rest of the world isn't still there. I encourage every one to actually go online and do women a favour. Our culture is very misogynist, and of you can't look beyond that you will never actually learn how women are strong leaders everywhere.
Layla, I understand what you're trying to say and I do agree with you that there ARE strong women leaders, but I think that even though some women are very strong and powerful they are still stereotyped, even today. The stereotype has always been that men are more powerful than women and it has improved a lot over time, but I think its still there regardless of how many female leaders or powerful women there are in the world.
DeleteThis is just a VERY small list of women leaders all around the world AT THE MOMENT. this doesn't include all the leaders throughout time.
ReplyDeletePresident Mary McAleese (Ireland)
President Tarja Halonen (Finland)
Chancellor Angela Merkel (Germany)
President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf (Liberia)
President Pratibha Patil (India)
President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (Argentina)
Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wajed (Bangladesh)
Prime Minister Jóhanna Sigurdardóttir (Iceland)
Prime Minister Jadranka Kosor (Croatia)
President Dalia Grybauskaite (Lithuania)
President Roza Otunbayeva (Kyrgyzstan)
President Laura Chinchilla (Costa Rica)
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar (Trinidad and Tobago)
Prime Minister Julia Gillard (Australia)
Prime Minister Iveta Radicová (Slovakia)
President Dilma Rousseff (Brazil)
President Micheline Calmy-Rey (Switzerland)
Prime Minister Rosario Fernández (Peru)
President Atifete Jahjaga (Kosovo)
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra (Thailand)
In my opinion, Shakespeare does not stereotype Lady Macbeth based on gender. Lady Macbeth herself is a really complex character, as she represents both fair and foul (she teaches Macbeth to “look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under’t” and after King arrives, she does a great demonstration for her husband). As we continue on with the play, we find Lady Macbeth surprisingly cruel and “crazy.” It is because even until nowadays, most people still believe women are supposed to be peaceful, kind, caring, sympathetic, etc. This proves that Shakespeare is not continuing the stereotype since Lady Macbeth is shown even more ambitious and ruthless than her husband. She is fully aware as if she knows crime and knows that she will have to push Macbeth into committing murder. While she is not the one who is actually committing murder, it is pretty clear that she is capable of it. Her husband implies that she is masculine soul inhabiting a female body, and as for Lady Macbeth, she uses female methods (ex. manipulation) to achieve power. Shakespeare here has shown that women are just capable as men. Lady Macbeth asks the gods to “unsex her”, to take away all the feminine qualities away, in which gender must not restricts her from doing what she desires.
ReplyDeleteMacbeth himself appears to be a great man and a brave warrior. However, whenever they stand together, I see a great contrast between Lady Macbeth and him. As a result, I get a feeling that Macbeth is an irresolute man. He only has his ambitions, but Lady Macbeth is actually the one planning the whole assassination (In fact, Lady Macbeth is the one who put Macbeth’s ambitions into actions: destroying the current king in order for Macbeth to become King). The idea of gender quality refers to the equal valuing of the roles of women and men. Both of the characters play a huge role on the assassination as Lady Macbeth is the one planning while Macbeth wields the knife.
Yes, I totally agree with you. Lady Macbeth and Macbeth are very contradicting. One is weak on the outside (foul) but strong in the inside (fair), yet the other one is strong on the outside (fair) but weak in the inside (foul). I think Shakespeare uses this contrast to emphasize gender equality and show that women can also dominate men, shown in act one scene 7, Lady Macbeth uses words to attack Macbeth physically and mentally to persuade Macbeth to kill Duncan. This example just presents Shakespeare’s disagreement with his surrounding social order. He doesn’t believe in stereotypes, that men are always superior to women. Like what you said, in the beginning of this huge assassination of the king, Shakespeare did not just let Macbeth take the whole role. He divided this role equally to Lady Macbeth and Macbeth and let Lady Macbeth to be the planner and Macbeth to be the killer. If Shakespeare is an advocate for continuing stereotype, then he will simply let Macbeth or some other men to murder the king, then a “weak” and “fragile” women like Lady Macbeth. Also, he will not describe Lady Macbeth and the witches this powerful, can order Macbeth to kill the king and tell fortunes that starts the downfall of Macbeth, then simply some house working, normal women in his era.
DeleteThank you for the reply, Carla :)!
DeleteAnd yes, I also agree that by showing the witches with such great power to tell prophecies, Shakespeare demonstrates gender equality. In the play, Banquo once said that the facial hair forbids him to think that they are women. The withces were mistaken as men due to their physical appearances and qualities.
I believe that Shakespeare’s message about gender is that women are not as good as men. I feel that Shakespeare does not advocate for gender equality but is continuing the stereotype. I say this is because at the beginning of the story, he introduced three witches, but not wizards that are going to find Macbeth. He uses women to symbolize the evilness in the play. Moreover, in Act 1 scene 5, Shakespeare has described Lady Macbeth as an evil, ambitious woman that could do anything to gain power. Also, she has turn out to be Macbeth’s downfall, which shows that women are a burden to men. In addition, in Act 1 scene 5, Lady Macbeth has said “unsex me here”, which shows that she wants to change her gender to become a man. Furthermore, in act 1 scene 6, Lady Macbeth speaks respectfully to King Duncan, this shows that the difference in power between men and women. Therefore, I believe that Shakespeare is continuing the stereotype.
ReplyDeleteI can’t deny that using witches in the opening scene is somehow stereotypical, but I don’t think Shakespeare is continuing the stereotype. For him to describe Lady Macbeth as “an evil, ambitious woman that could do anything to gain power” I see it as an example to show equality between gender which both men and woman strive to gain power. Typically, Lady Macbeth is being described as a very “different” female character in the play, of which she has the power of manipulation over Macbeth who himself is a general in the army. Thus, this provides us with a sense of the Lady Macbeth has break some typical traits of a woman such as powerless when compared to a man. As a conclusion, I see equality between the two sexes in this setting of gender reversal in this play.
DeleteCarey, I agree the point when you said “women symbolize the evilness in the play.” Why didn’t Shakespeare use wizards instead of witches? Is it because witches will sound more cruel and effective and wizards sound more general? I don’t get why is that, but this idea kind of stuck in my brain. For example, when we hear “wizard”, we might think about Harry Potter or other fiction movies. But when we hear “witches”, our brain will instantly think about evil and negative things. So, are we also stereotype? If we are, then our thought would be same as Shakespeare’s. He might thought witches would be more effective than wizards.
DeleteI think that Shakespeare’s message of gender equality could be found in the weird sisters. The three witches are dangerous and have to power to bring terrible misfortune upon those who cross them. In Act 1, Scene 3, the weird sisters appear in front of Macbeth and Banquo and Banquo says ‘you should be women, and yet your beards forbid me to interpret that you are so’ (1.3.46). This suggests that the witches, though women, could be mistaken as men due to their physical appearances and qualities. The witches are cruel to those who oppose them as shown in the beginning of act 1 scene 1 when the first witch cursed the sailor because his wife would not share her chestnuts. As mentioned multiple times, women are thought to be weak and powerless. Perhaps Shakespeare thought that making the weird sisters have both feminine and masculine qualities would show gender equality.
DeleteI didn't even think of the witches in the way you said, about "Perhaps Shakespeare thought that making the weird sisters have both feminine and masculine qualities would show gender equality." I think that is a brilliant example of how gender equality is shown, with even just three women, Shakespeare gave them traits that of a man. Perhaps in order to make them scarier or show that these women aren't just women. That they can show there evil side in that of a man.
DeleteI now disagree with what i have wrote down. I now agree with gender equality. i agree with you, Jeremy on the three witches. Also, i agree with you Judy. The more i try to think of Shakespeare stereotyping women, the i feel that he advocate gender equality. All of the example i provide, i now feel that they are all on the gender equality side.
DeleteIn Macbeth, Shakespeare switches the stereotype of men and women around. The stereotype is that men are able to do anything at their own will and their wives are to listen to any of their requests. Women are supposed to obey what their husband or father has told them and don't usually make decisions for themselves. Macbeth changes this stereotype in this play. Also, men are supposed to be tough and masculine and women are supposed to be dainty and frail, however Shakespeare changes this stereotype greatly in Macbeth.
ReplyDeleteHe makes the role of Lady Macbeth tough, masculine and forceful, and makes Macbeth the opposite. Lady Macbeth is able to manipulate Macbeth into killing the king by questioning his manhood and masculinity and succeeds. In other words in Macbeth and Lady Macbeth's relationship, Lady Macbeth is in charge, not Macbeth. This changes the stereotype that was already set at that time.
Shakespeare also brings about the idea that men and women are equal in power. In the play, Macbeth is powerful because of his name and the way he behaves, however is not powerful in his mind or the way he thinks. On the other hand, Lady Macbeth is not powerful because of her name or because of the way she behaves, she is powerful because of her manipulative mind.
I really like your examples and the idea of switching stereotype of men and women around. But I think that Macbeth is willing to kill the king not just because of Lady Macbeth but also he wants to be a king as well. Lady Macbeth just used his desire and push him a but more, but I do agree that she is in charge in this relationship.
DeleteI also agreed your idea of equal in power. Somehow it reminds me or the theme "fair is foul and foul is fair". I guess it's because that sometimes things are not what they look like and as the king said, it's hard to tell what a person is thinking by looking at his face.
I agreed with both of you. Shakespeare is trying to show the equality between the men and women by switching the stereotype around. And by doing that, Lady Macbeth is giving the quality of being cunning and manipulative over Macbeth (as Hank mentioned that she is the one in charge of their relationship). On the opposite side, Macbeth is then given the trait of being indecisive about the murder of the King, and the great deal of guilt and regret after he committed the assassination. Moreover, by making Lady Macbeth “psychologically powerful” while Macbeth is “physically powerful” Shakespeare introduce the idea of equality of power between genders, and it is shown when the characters are set up as “people who have the same ambition and desire for power.”
DeleteAlso, Hank, I agree with you that the theme "fair is foul and foul is fair" could definitely be seen on Lady Macbeth when she said to “look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under it.” (I, iv, 72-73)
shakespeare seems to advocate gender equality, specifically the Character of Lady MacBeth. She is totally going against the gender stereotype that women are kind, caring, and fragile. Lady MacBeth is a ruthless, power hungry b**** who is willing to do anything for a title including murdering the king when he is a guest in her house. She has MacBeth twisted around her finger and can manipulate him to do whatever she wants. She's damn crazy. She strongly goes against the gender stereotypes.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Shakespeare’s message about gender is that male and female are equal in status. This is especially shown in our play, “Macbeth”, on the characteristics of the witches and Lady Macbeth. Because Shakespeare was born in a very stereotypic time, where men had the power and dominance over women, his play should present women as weak and fragile and staying at home doing chores to support their husbands. However, in his play, “Macbeth”, all the female characters are completely opposite of his era’s gender expectations. For example, the witches in the beginning show us that though they are evil and crazy, they have freedom. None of the witches are restricted by any men and when they meet Macbeth, they are not afraid of him. They even can put curses on people and tell prophecies that started the downfall of Macbeth. These characteristics are not seen in Shakespeare’s era. Also, Lady Macbeth has demonstrated a real manly woman by attacking her husband, Macbeth, with words physically and mentally. Expressions like “this night’s great business into my dispatch” (meaning Lady Macbeth intends to kill the king herself.), “and live a coward in thine own esteem” (attacking Macbeth as coward because he’s afraid to kill the king) and “screw your courage to the sticking-lace” (assaulting Macbeth physically), are definitely not from women in Shakespeare’s era. But in Shakespeare’s play, he actually portrayed Lady Macbeth, crazier and crueler than men, as a character that controls her husband and has a gender reverse in appearance and heart. Although she is a women on the outside (fair), she worships demons to “unsex her” in order to become like a men and be capable of killing the king (foul). Such personality also give us an example of the theme, “fair is foul and foul is fair”. Moreover, the personality of Macbeth also helps contradicting man superiority by looking brave, strong and ambitious (fair), but acting timid and weak that afraid to kill Duncan (foul). As a result, Shakespeare has stood up for gender equality with writing an example like Lady Macbeth in his play to express that women can also capable of doing anything men can. Just like Virginia Woolf saw Shakespeare as “transcending the sexual stereotypes imposed by the surrounding social order”, Shakespeare is an advocate for gender equality in his time.
ReplyDeleteCarla, I love how you brought up Virginia Woolf. She once described how little of women's reality she found in Lady Macbeth, and criticized Shakespeare's lack of portrayal of female friendship and women's other roles. However, when arguing that women have had a more important place in literature than in history, she began with Shakespeare's Lady Macbeth. Shakespeare's female characters are indeed dangerous models, especially for this play, Macbeth. In fact, according to Carol Thomas Neely, many women have used identification with Shakespeare's female characters for feminist purposes.
DeleteI believe Shakespeare’s message about gender is pretty obvious. For example, he uses witches (women) as the evil side and Macbeth, Banquo, and Duncan King (men) as the hero side. Clearly, Shakespeare does not really like women. He is stereotype person. However, not only this play has stereotype in it, his other great pieces also contain some bias in women, such as “The Merchant of Venice”
ReplyDeleteIf you still are doubtful whether Shakespeare is bias or not, this is another example in the play that proves it. Another example, Lady Macbeth plays the role that leads to Macbeth’s downfall, which is also negative (evil). Therefore, Shakespeare has stereotype in women.
In real life, there are actual histories about stereotyping women. In the pass centuries, women were not allowed to work and vote. They were being treated not as a person, but as slaves. However, this as the time goes by, this finally changed. Nowadays, women and man all have the same rights to do the things they want. But the idea of men is better than women are still happening around us.
PS. I’m not totally sure about this, but I found that Shakespeare had a bad relationship with his mom and hated his wife.
Stanley, I totally support with you on Shakespeare’s message about gender. In Act 1 scene 1 and scene 3, he uses the witches to symbolize evilness. Also, the example of Lady Macbeth being downfall of Macbeth, I predict that Shakespeare has stereotype in women. However, I can’t say that he doesn’t like women. Moreover, I agree with you on the history you come up with. In Canada or all other history, women do not have the rights as a person. They did not have the equality treatment as the men. That’s why I feel that Shakespeare has the same idea of women stereotype, causes by the concept of the history brought to us. Even nowadays, there are still those ideas of men are better than women, happening around us. I, stand as a woman, I feel that women should have the equality as the men, because we are not worse, but we could be better. : )
DeleteNow, after reading others comment, i now disagree with you on your idea. Even though, the part where three witches are shown as evilness did reveal stereotyping women, but just like Judy says, because of this weird setting of witches, has begin the gender reversal in the play. I do agree with you in real life history where women were not being look as a person. However, i feel that Shakespeare are encouraging the idea of gender equality. The examples you use to support with your ideas, the part where Lady Macbeth being Macbeth's downfall. I feel that this is trying to give the readers the sense that women could even control men. Women are not weaker than the men has shown in the scene where Lady Macbeth attacks Macbeth's manhood and wanting to be "unsex". Moreover, you found that Shakespeare had bad relationship with his mom and hated his wife. This does not connect to this play. Even though, in real life he does hate women, but this can't be use as an prove to say that he stereotyping women.
DeleteAfter finish reading your comment, I agree with you that Shakespeare is encouraging the idea of gender equality. Your examples are pretty persuasive, but I still feel that although Shakespeare encourages the idea of gender equality, he still somehow shows some stereotyping. For example, if you remember when Lady Macbeth goes up to her tower and tells a devil to give her power to “unsex her”, this is not a good image of a woman should have. He is showing bad images about women, like her ambitious to be a queen and her evil thoughts to kill the king.
DeleteLet compare to Macbeth, Shakespeare does not show many bad images about him. He starts out with him a noble man and, good fighting skills and lots of fame. He made his thoughts not pure but purer that his wife. However, Lady Macbeth is almost opposite. She starts out to be a wicked woman who has crafty thoughts and doesn’t have anything. No reputation and power.
In conclusion, I agree that Shakespeare encourages the idea of gender equality, but I also still believe that he is stereotyping.
I see Shakespeare more as an advocate for gender equality even though some stereotypical settings are present; for example, the use of woman to represent evil. The opening scene features 3 witches as the representative of evilness, yet Banquo described them as “creatures seem like woman, but with beards.” Even though we all interpret that witches would be role of a woman, (and wizards would be the role of man) I personally interpret this twisted weird setting of the witches is the beginning of the gender reversal in the play.
ReplyDeleteAnother example of reversed gender setting is the contrast between Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. Macbeth is introduced with typical traits of warrior such as masculinity during wartime, yet he showed his “soft side” when Lady Macbeth provides him with the murder plan, and he hesitated to commit the crime. On the other hand, Lady Macbeth showed her femininity on the outside appearance and behaviours (look like the innocent flower), but not when she’s alone with Macbeth, for that he described her as a woman so tough that she would only give birth to males (she hide the serpent under the flower).
By “unsex Lady Macbeth” or “unman Macbeth”, Shakespeare provides us the sense that both men and woman are capable of doing the same thing, (e.g. being powerful) thus I said this play showed traces of gender equality.
Before I do not agree with either you or Zoey, however after reading both of you guys’ thoughts, my idea of stereotyping women has changed. As I slowly understand the play, I see that Shakespeare more as an advocate for gender equality. The usage of the three witches; I feel that maybe it is because in the pass history, there was more of the idea of witches, not wizards. Also, witches are more commonly use and describe evilness. I also agree with you that in the play it seems that Lady Macbeth and Macbeth reversed their gender. I personally feel that Lady Macbeth’s behavior or her thoughts does not match her appearance and is more likely as a man. In contrast, I see in Macbeth’s interior to be more as a woman, even though his exterior presents as a man. There are many examples that prove this idea of gender reversal. Just like the examples you have provide us. The part where Lady Macbeth wanting to be “unsex”, and where she insult Macbeth’s manhood like a cry baby and a coward. It appears to me that, Lady Macbeth is guiding Macbeth to do what she wants to achieve but couldn’t because of gender issue. It’s like she’s the man that is leading Macbeth to become a man.
DeleteI agree with both of you that Shakespeare is an advocate for gender equality. Yes, the first setting in the scene where Shakespeare uses witches not wizard is an example of stereotype. But I believe that like what Carey had said witches might be more commonly used in Shakespeare’s era and also witches might sound more cruel and evil then wizards. Also, I think he presents all his female characters in his play to be evil because he wants to reflect the mistrust of women in his society. He wants to show that because people in his era don’t believe in women’s capability and think that they are weak. So, he portrays Lady Macbeth as evil and superior than his husband to tell his society that women are also able to become like men. They are capable of anything that men are. Also, although they are weak looking, they have strong will, like Lady Macbeth worshipping devils to “unsex her”. On the other hand, though Macbeth is manly, he is actually timid to kill Duncan and fulfill his ambitions. This gender reversal in the play demonstrates us that judging people by their cover is not right; “Fair is foul and foul is fair”. Fair looking people can be foul in the inside and on the contrary, foul looking people can be fair in the inside, just like Macbeth and Lady Macbeth.
DeleteI believe that Shakespeare’s message about gender was that it didn’t matter and either sex was capable of doing the same things. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth plays a very dominant role; It is very unlike the typical weak and submissive roles that portrayed women during that time.
ReplyDeleteShakespeare was a playwright who incorporated bold ideas into his plays and along with his other themes of forbidden desire, lust, and betrayal, gender equality was among them. He wanted to show that gender did not change the abilities of a man or woman.
An example in Macbeth is when Lady Macbeth receives the letter from Macbeth and she immediately thinks of murdering Duncan as the only solution of fulfilling the prophecy. She wants to be unsexed and filled ‘from crown to the toe, top-full of direst cruelty’ (1.5.45). This means that because men were thought of to be the superior sex, Lady Macbeth wishes to be a man so that her behaviour and evil thoughts can match her gender. Lady Macbeth is a manipulative, power-hungry, ambitious character and when Macbeth is having second thoughts about killing Duncan, she immediately insults his manhood and pushes him to go through with their plan. In this scene, the gender roles are seemingly reversed. Macbeth is shown to be as self-doubting and Lady Macbeth is the strong-willed one, asking if he would rather “live a coward in thine own esteem, letting ‘I dare not’ wait upon ‘I would’” (1.7.46). She asks whether or not he is a coward that is afraid of taking the next step and becoming king.
Shakespeare was an advocate for gender equality and displayed his ideas though his plays.
did anyone see this post before because i posted it earlier and it somehow disappeared..
DeleteZoey that happened to me too
DeleteZoey, I love how you use examples proving your great ideas. After reading your thought, my idea of stereotyping women has changed. Now, I agree with you as well. : ) Even though, at the beginning, Shakespeare using three witches to symbolize the evilness, however, for Lady Macbeth, Shakespeare has show that women could be even stronger than men. Lady Macbeth plays the role of Macbeth’s downfall, which shows that women could control over men and even make them fall. Also, the part where the scene that Lady Macbeth insulting Macbeth’s manhood, I agree that this has reveal the equality between men and women. In this scene the gender role seems to be reversed. Lady Macbeth wanting to be “unsex” (to become man), so she could do what should be done to gain power, not like Macbeth, suppose to be the tough, powerful warrior but act so weak and being like a coward that afraid to kill the King. (Like a women) Moreover, Lady Macbeth acts as a role that is controlling on Macbeth’s future path. I say this because in Act 2, where Macbeth has finally killed King Duncan, he has accidentally forgotten to place the knife in Duncan’s room. And he refused to go back in. This part shows that Macbeth is a cowardly, impotent man that can’t achieve his ambitious goal, which Lady Macbeth appears to carry out their original plans. Lady Macbeth’s behavior and thoughts does not fit her characteristic as a women, this has demonstrate both sex are all capable to do the same things. That’s why I now believe that Shakespeare was an advocate for gender equality, and disagree with the stereotype.
DeleteShakespeare has a funny message if you ask me about gender. He is taking the stereo typical actions of a man which is being able to kill someone, or trick some deviously and using them in a woman (Lady Macbeth). As well he has taken the stereotypical woman features and has shown that Lady Macbeth lacks these features(Doesn't hurt people isn't violent). We see that in extremes however. Lady Macbeth still has all the stereotypical features of a woman (pretty hair, very well mannered, acts lady like near company) but she has desires that make her more like a man(killing the king), and she even knows it by saying "unsex me here". Macbeth also knows when he states that she will only give birth to men because of how manly she is. Because of this i think that Shakespeare is spreading the stereotypical image of woman.
ReplyDeleteEven though I believe that Shakespeare does not stereotype Lady Macbeth based on gender, I agree with you about the stereotypical features Shakespeare brought up when characterizing Lady Macbeth. You made an excellent point since now I have noticed her appearence, too, not just her crazy personality. Shakespeare describes her with pretty hair, well mannered, and acts like a proper hostess around company. I realize this is kind of stereotypical because usually women are in role of preparation for feasts/gatherings, especially distinguied guests. No matter which century it is, this manner still exists.
DeleteIn Shakespeare's time, women were basically like "properties". It is like their existences are to submit/obey their husbands and to stay at home doing chores, or taking care of children. Yet, in the play, Shakespeare also allows us to see the "stronger" side of Lady Macbeth. She has the characteristics that most women don't share: ruthless, ambitious, and powerful. Therefore, for this matter, I don't think that Shakespeare is spreading the stereotypical image of women.
Sterling, I see where you are going with that, but if you consider what Lady macbeth has as male features, the human race would be in ruins before a thousand years ago. I think what shakespeare is communicating is what hhe belives goes on inside the mind of a woman. Overall I think hes sexist.
DeleteI believe that Shakespeare was been stereo type, but in a way of trying to equal out the gender stereo type. For example, he used Lady Macbeth as the pretty lady in the play. She got her pretty outfit and act perfectly as a hostess, but in the inside, she has all the crazy idea about how to become queen. She will do anything and everything to get what she wants, power. She even asked the devil to give her power. Then he puts in Macbeth, a great warrior that fought for the king and did well on wars, but can't even make up his mind most of the time. He wants to be a king and wants it badly, but he's too weak to do anything against his king. You can see in his head, he kept going back and forth between kill the king or not. He always started with how he shouldn't do anything like it, but end with he wants to be the king. He couldn't do anything that is against his loyalty but he thinks about it all the time.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you, Hank. I think all your examples, like Lady Macbeth looking pretty but being evil and Macbeth looking strong but acting weak, shows that Shakespeare is an advocate of gender equality, though there are some examples of stereotype. But I think his stereotype like all his female characters are evil is to help proving that women and men are equal in status. Women are capable of doing things men can and also some men may act like women being weak on the inside, just like the gender reversal of Lady Macbeth and Macbeth. Moreover, Shakespeare uses this assassination of Duncan to show that women and men have equal capability to do anything, by letting Lady Macbeth to be the planner instead of any other men and Macbeth to be the killer. He equally divided this role into two and giving them to opposite genders is to present women and men are both very important in his society. Plus, Lady Macbeth and Macbeth both share the same characteristic of being ambitious. Therefore, Shakespeare uses this play to explain that no one has the power to dominant the other.
DeleteI can't deny that there are some stereotypical settings on the characters, both men and women, but I do support the idea that Shakespeare is trying to go for gender equality in the play. The reversal in roles between Macbeth and Lady Macbeth overthrow the typical image of both men and woman. For example, how women should be frail, kindhearted, powerless (when compare to men) is not found in Lady Macbeth; and Macbeth is indecisive while being manipulated when he’s with her, even though he is physically strong and powerful. Thus, this “switch-around” of gender roles seems to be just the reversal of stereotypical settings, but in my view I see it as an attempt to reveal gender equality to the audiences by letting both men and women has the same ability and desire for power.
DeleteI believe that Shakespeare is not stereotype because he is not using woman’s characteristics to describe Lady Macbeth. Instead, he uses man’s traits to describe her. This shows that Shakespeare does not care about gender (male/female). I think he is trying to prove that gender is not a big deal; women and men have the same equality. For example, Lady Macbeth changes her husband not to be a coward. She is the one who persuades Macbeth to kill the king. Macbeth is like a puppet to her even though he is a man.
DeleteHe has a stereotypical view in the sense that he believes it should be that way, because he thinks that a woman had a man's ability in that time, they would just murder people and cause terror. But in that sense, I must agree with you.
DeleteI believe, that in the story of Macbeth, gender equality is a big point. The fact that Lady Macbeth and Macbeth himself have switched roles in the way that Lady Macbeth is the one that is doing the killing and planning and Macbeth just stays home. I'm not saying that nowadays the Woman just stays home, but this was how long in the past. Just wanted to point that out. And the fact that Lady Macbeth has to manipulate Macbeth into doing something that he already wants, which is to become king, but he decides that it is a bad idea to kill Duncan and his son and tells his wife not too. But Lady Macbeth (involving the gender equality), tell him that he will do it and jabs at him in a very manipulative and hurtful manner.
ReplyDeletei also believe the same as what you said. In the play it seems that men and women switches their roles. Lady Macbeth wanting to be "unsex", so his interior mind could matches his appearance. This has clearly showed that gender reversal in the play. I also agree that, in the pass, women plays the role staying home, and did not have the right as a men. Women did not being see as a person, but as a slave. However, in the play, by guiding Macbeth to achieve his ambition, Lady Macbeth has uses harmful language to regain Macbeth his own manhood conscious. Also, Lady Macbeth has the same concept as Macbeth that wanting to gain power has reveal that women and men are the same. They all can posses the same thoughts and can do the same things.
DeleteTherefore, Shakespeare support the opinion on gender equality.
Whoa. Forgot about this completely.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, yes i DO think that Shakespeare reinforces gender stereotypes. I think he's trying to say that women are generally evil, and scheming something, something to be feared, and wary of, and men are generally Brave, Valiant, Noble people. Like that bleeding guy at the start of the story. It didn't just show him as a soldier. It showed him as a VALIANT one, one that had gone through hell and back, and heroically informs the King of the Situation. And Macbeth, Obviously, the Great, and Powerful, the Awesome, with his Sword steaming with blood, etc, etc. And also, there was that Nobleman, who i forgot but he was a thane, whose land was given to Macbeth after his death, but Shakespeare made him die a "noble" death, when the king heard the he was righteous in his last moments as he pleaded guilty.
Then there are the Female Parts, of which I'm Pretty sure we have only seen 4. The 3 witches, and Lady MacBeth. The three witches seem to be the embodiment of evil, rotten to the core (cliche saying, i know), and they are beings of magic. We are shown early on in the story, that it is sensible to be cautious and wary of the witches, as you never know what they'll do to you...or your family. And Lady Macbeth, is also one to be cautious of. She wants POWER, and she doesnt care what she has to do to get a-hold of it. Even if it means killing relatives.
So yea, Shakespeare is promoting Gender inequality. But you can't really blame him. I mean, the era he lived in was ALL ABOUT inequality.
Shakespeare had a stereotypical point of view of gender. The only women in this play so far are either pure evil, magic, or just plain creepy. Lady MacBeth being pure evil inside, and the other introduced women being witches, show an interesting comparison to noble Characters such as the king, Banquo or MacBeth himself. Shakespeare beelives that Lady Macbeth could be a man, proven by her actions, but her evil doings also reveal shakespeare's opinion of the matter. He knows women are capable of being manly, he just doesnt support the idea.
ReplyDeleteI pretty much completely agree with this and the way he supports the idea is awesome. In my opinion I think hes trying to show us that if a woman was to take on more manly roles she would either end up like one of the witches (crazy bearded ladies) or a crazy, near heartless woman who is capable of things that not even a man would want to do (such as killing his own king in his own house). And it also seems that if a woman were to take on more man like roles only bad things can follow that.
DeleteIn my opinion shakespeare did a great job of showing us what can happen if a woman took on the more man like roles in the house. We all know that this is all going to go downhill for Macbeth but we know where it started. If Lady Macbeth had more lady like thoughts and actions she would have tried her hardest to prevent Macbeth from killing the king but it was the other way around. Since Lady macbeth can be considered to be the bigger man then Macbeth we can see how this is going to be what brings Macbeth down
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