Tuesday, April 17, 2012
Question #2: Gender: Forward or Backward? (Block F)
The idea of Gender and its stereotypical roles are a big part of the theme of the play. What do you believe Shakespeare's message is about gender? How do the characters reflect or not reflect your theme? Is Shakespeare an advocate for gender equality or is he continuing the stereotype? Use multiple examples (both male and female) to support you idea.
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In William Shakespeare's play Macbeth the conventional gender roles that are normally assumed among society are definitely switched up. Back in the time when this play was written the mans role is to work and the womans role is to look pretty and cook and clean as we discussed in class. However Shakespeare has decided to mix it up for the characters: Macbeth and Lady Macbeth in his play. I think the reason for him doing this is because he wants to make a point that women are capable of doing much more things than what they were supposed to do. This is very emanent in Act 1, Scene 6 and 7 when lady Macbeth is talking about taking things into her own hands about killing the King, and Macbeth just agrees and doesn't do anything. This is very strange because Lady Macbeth seems to be taking the role of the man in the house and Macbeth is taking the role of the woman. I think that this is Shakespeares way of showing that genders should be viewed as nothing more than genders and should not be what we base our thoughts about how that person should act and that we are all capable of doing the same things.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your position because in Shakespeares time gender roles were very traditional and well established and no one who lived at that time would be thinking in terms of gender equality.I think Shakespeare wrote the character roles reversed as a theatrical device.Shakespeare was a playwright.He would have wanted the audience to come to his plays.He had to make each play exciting for the audience to watch.If Macbeth was the murderer and lady Macbeth was a weak housewife the audience would have thought this would be just ordinary.Gender equality is an idea of the 20th century and not something that Shakespeare would have been promoting through his plays.
Deletei agree with you that lady macbeth and macbeth have pretty much switched spots with eachother. Macbeth has let lady macbeth manipulate him into killing the king and has a devious plan to go with it, back in the days when this was written this would of never of came from a woman. I think that shakepseare was trying to make a play that showed the audience of that time a completelty different view of woman and man by turning macbeth into a coward and lady macbeth into the man of the relationship
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ReplyDeleteIn Shakespeare's play Macbeth,the traditional roles of man and women are reversed.Shakespeare's message about gender is that women can be just as strong as men in some circumstances.I think the characters do refelct the theme because lady Macbeth is the one who plans the murder of the king and tells Macbeth to toughen up his courage.Macbeth doesn't want to commint the murder and he questions what would happen if they failed.This shows his lack of confidence in himself.I don't think Shakespeare wrote the play about gender equality because he wrote the lady Macbeth character this way to shock the audience of his time. It would be unusual to see a woman murder.
ReplyDeleteI noticed how you said that Macbeth has a lack of confidence in himself. i dont think this is the case because if he had a lack of confidence he wouldn't be what he is know. Its just that when it comes to dealing with his wife he feels overpowered by her as she insults him and questions his manlihood as we read in Act One Scene 7 in class.
DeleteIn the play Macbeth, by William Shakespeare, the roles of women and men are forward, but in an extreme way. By extreme i mean to the fullest extent of what a male would be and fulfills the stereotypical male qualities, such as being ruthless, a fighter, and doing what needs to be done. The stereotypical image of a male is someone who is just like Macbeth, but in a toned down way, although men don't think about murder and have no remorse for killing others, we do have those qualities, but we do not openly use them. The same goes for female in the play. Lady Macbeth is a perfect example of this because she shows readers the true extent of what women stereotypically do, but in an extremest type of way. For example, women are suggested to be sly and somewhat controlling of the male. In Shakespeare, Lady Macbeth has these qualities, and uses them to fully control Macbeth into whatever she wants. The stereotypical image of a women is take to an extreme level were she literally has him under control.
ReplyDeleteI agree how you said that Macbeth is basically an extreme stereotype of a man but then again this is only for the begining of the play because later we read that when it comes to dealing with his wife, he goes along with whatever she says. I don't agree though about the fact that Lady Macbeth is an extreme stereotype of a women because women usually don't take on the role of the husband and its almost as if she has "man-like" qualities. But she is defenitely not an extreme woman stereotype.
DeleteI agree with what both of you are saying, firstly I see where Aaron is coming from by saying they're extremest stereotypes, and how lady Macbeth is sly and controlling. And secondly I agree with Nathan, these traits are really starting to show themselves the farther we read into the book.
DeleteIn Macbeth, the ideas and perceptions of both male and female are extremely strong. Males are shown to be the strong human beings while the females are supposed to be the ones who "look pretty". Females are known to be the one who "wears the pants in the relationship", not physically, but the one who makes the rules and decides what happens. Macbeth and Lady Macbeth clearly show this. Macbeth is the physically strong male who does whatever his wife, Lady Macbeth says. Women are known as manipulators, and that's just what Lady Macbeth does to Macbeth. Lady Macbeth has total control over Macbeth and what he does. Personally, I think Shakespeare is trying to show us how the stereotypes are played out and what we are supposed to think about both genders.
ReplyDeleteI think what the stereotype is really depends on ones opinion. Some people may say that women are the weaker gender while others will argue that women have power over men. I think that, while trying to write an interesting and exciting play, Shakespeare switched the gender stereotypes of his time around. In those times, women were known as the weaker gender. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is an absolutely insane, manipulative and powerful woman. Shakespeare switched the old time stereotype around and made the woman of the house the one with power. When Lady Macbeth hears that the king is coming over for dinner she insists that he be murdered that night. Shakespeare made Lady Macbeth a very strange character. She acts as though she was a male born into a female’s body. Whatever she says, Macbeth listens. It’s almost as though he’s afraid of her, but then again, who wouldn’t be. Also, when Macbeth goes back on his word and no longer wants to kill the king, she yells at him and tells him he has to do it now because he promised. She speaks of such brutal things that no woman would ever speak about in a regular society. Shakespeare also gave the witches the main role of creating all of the trouble. They planted the seeds in Macbeths head and Lady Macbeth waters them and watches them grow. Ultimately, the women in the play are really what bring Macbeths downfall. Because there is two ends to the gender stereotype, Shakespeare was just supporting the division between men and women and not putting forth the theme of gender equality.
ReplyDeleteI really like what you have mentioned here in terms of how Lady Macbeth has male characteristics. She is very much a male born in to a females body. Plus, the things she speaks of are truly despicable and horrible things. Things that a women has no place saying not only in Shakespeare's time but even ours nowadays. The part of your response which I found most intriguing is when you mentioned how the witches plant the seeds in Macbeth's head and Lady macbeth waters them. I had never considered that, but it is very true! It just goes to show how women's roles are heavily reversed throughout the entire play. But the interesting point is that Macbeth is still the tool which performs the action. What could that mean?
DeleteI like how you said that Lady Macbeth seems like a "male born into a female's body". I completely agree with that statement. I agree with you that the women bring upon the downfall of Macbeth because they are so powerful in this play and seem to have complete control. I also like your concluding sentence. Shakespeare didn't try to support gender equality, he wanted to show the divide between the two genders.
DeleteI completely agree with your first sentence that states that stereotypes depend on your opinion. Someone could easily see this as a completely normal situation with Lady Macbeth being "in charge" while others would see this as abnormal.
DeleteLuke, I think that Macbeth still going through with the plotted actions just confirms the division Shakespeare was making between the two genders and making the statement that men are easily manipulated. If you look at the King, he is so easily fooled by Macbeth and his wife. He trusts them completely when really they're just plotting to kill him.
DeleteIn the play, Macbeth, Shakespeare uses gender stereotypes. Back then, and even today we have ideas about what each sex does. For example today some people still use the stereotype of women being in the kitchen, and the man working all day. However, in medieval times this wasn’t exactly a stereotype, but rather how people lived. The women would stay home, take care of the house, cook, mend the clothing, while the man would be working and getting food. In Scene One of Macbeth, we see that Shakespeare has showed Lady Macbeth to be the one who “wears the pants” in the relationship. Lady Macbeth tells Macbeth that she will take care of killing the king, while Macbeth just agrees. Lady Macbeth tells Macbeth to look pretty while she will act open the king like a serpent inside.
ReplyDeleteOn the note of Shakespeare being an advocate for gender equality, I am unsure on this. On one hand Shakespeare could be seen as promoting females, and how females can be just as hard, strong willed and loyal just as any man is. On the other hand, Shakespeare is also using the stereotype (in that time period) that a woman is meek and smiles to look pretty, while she looks up to her man to do the dirty work. Here, Shakespeare could be using this stereotype just to put more drama into his play.
I agree I was also a little unsure if Shakespeare actually was supporting gender equality. I myself am leaning more to no he was not; just because of the way he portrayed Lady Macbeth. When Lady Macbeth begins the gender switch she says things like "unsex me here" and talking about how she wishes every feminine attribute be stripped from her. So truly this means that even Lady Macbeth a woman wants nothing to do with her gender, even she saw the weakness in women. So really is Shakespeare supporting gender equality or just supporting men in the lopsided gender roles in this time.
DeleteI agree with your statement about how in medieval this was not a stereotype rather just the way they lived. I believe that this is still true in many places in the world and more rural areas were the men work and females do housework. I too believe that Shakespeare was trying to put more drama into his play.
DeleteI like how you used the idea of Shakespeare also possibly promoting females. I didn’t think about it before, but that’s a very good point. In Lady Macbeth’s character, he shows her as “hard, strong willed and loyal just as any man is,” just as you said. But then again he could just be supporting gender equality and playing down the stereotypes by showing that Macbeth listens to Lady Macbeth and does what she says when she told him to just look pretty and she will take care of the work in killing the king.
DeleteIn the play Macbeth, it is apparent that Shakespear added a twist to the generic roles of men and women. Truthfully, in a perfect world, there should be no set ways of how a man should live his life, or how a woman should, but stereotypes have developed over time. Especially in these times, the gender roles were very clear. Women were to do housework: baking, cleaning, cooking. Men were to do "manly" things like slaying dragons, riding horseback, and going hunting. It is very odd that the roles seem to be completely switched in the relationship between Macbeth and his wife. One could say that Lady Macbeth definitley "wears the pants" in this relationship, apart from the stereotype. From what I have read so far, I believe that Shakespear is in favour of gender equality, and is trying to portray that not only men can be the bearer of evil and/or conflict. It seems as if though the women (the witches, Lady Macbeth) are the real fire to the conflict in this play, from what we have read so far.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure if I agree that Shakespeare was in favour of gender equality. It seems as though he was just adding another point of view to the stereotypes. The stereotype still exists in Macbeth, it's just been reversed. If he was to express gender equality, I don't think any stereotype would even be present.
DeleteWell, yes, but you could also look at it from the point that Shakespeare gave a woman (Lady Macbeth) stereotypical man qualitys; this shows that he is in belief of the idea that a person, regardless of their sex, can possess any particiular characterisitics/traits. That, I would say is leaning more towards gender equality, in the fact that traits do not apply to a certain sex, but rather a person as a whole.
DeleteThat's true, that the sex of the person doesn't necessarily make a difference but ultimately there is still a stereotype occurring. I understand what you mean by how both have male and female qualities but the stereotype still does stand out because Lady Macbeth is most definitely the man in the relationship and Macbeth is easily manipulated and obeys his wife. Because theres still a divide between the two characters personalities and they still fall into masculine and feminine characteristics, there is still stereotyping.
DeleteIt seems as though Shakespeare is continuing on the idea of stereotypes, but in a way so that it promotes gender quality. I think that we both have valid points here.
DeleteIn William Shakespeare's Macbeth, he is expressing the idea that gender roles can be switched, based on one's willpower, and confidence. Lady Macbeth really intends to kill the king, so Macbeth can become king, but more for her to become queen. She takes the more dominant role, because Macbeth is not wanting to kill him. Lady Macbeth is taking the role of being the brave one, while she tells Macbeth to take on a more feminine role by being innocent and looking pretty. In reality though, this happens as well. It's not really gender roles, but more like gender stereotypes. I personally believe in gender roles to a point. Like, how the man should be protective of their wife or girlfriend (to an extent). Shakespeare though, is trying to prove that it's not only men who can take control in a relationship, it's also women. Instead of Lady Macbeth doing the "wife thing to do", like being a good host, cooking and cleaning, she's out there planning up her evil plan of killing the king. Macbeth should be the one taking a little more control, when it comes to gender stereotypes, but he just basically follows in Lady Macbeth's footsteps.
ReplyDeleteI liked how you talked about "gender stereotypes" instead of "gender roles" because they are two totally different ideas. Stereotypes are a generalization about a person, or a group, and a role is something more of expectations to live up to. Also, I completely agree with the idea that Shakespeare was giving women more freedom in a typical relationship, and how they don't have to act a certain way. It really puts his ideas and strategies into perspective.
DeleteI completely agree with your point that gender roles can be switched based on one's willpower to switch them. Macbeth does not take on the role of a authoritative figure and because of that Lady Macbeth is able to be in control. Also, I agree with the idea that the ways of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth are gender stereotypes of how one should act in a relationship. In this case, the stereotype is just reversed which adds a bit of drama and excitement to the play. By Shakespeare showing that women can control the relationship as well, I believe he is for gender equality. - Tavleen
DeleteIn all of William Shakespeare plays I believe Shakespeare was way ahead of his time, he often uses a female to play a main role in his play. Even in the play of Macbeth for example he uses Lady Macbeth and without her there really would be no play. He also expresses in the plays that gender roles can be switched. He shows this in Macbeth with having Lady Macbeth play the more manly role by taking charge and telling Macbeth to go be innocent and look pretty while he will take care of the rest. This shows a switch in gender roles because back in the day the women would be the ones looking pretty and innocent while the men would take charge and do what needed to be done.
ReplyDeleteI like how you said that without Lady Macbeth there would be no play. It is true, there would be no conflict with Macbeth if she didn't challenge his actions and thoughts. I also like how you put in the example of Macbeth being told to "look pretty" by Lady Macbeth, while she does all the work.
DeleteI find it very interesting how you mention that Shakespeare often uses an important female lead in his plays. If you think back to Romeo and Juliet, this is also somewhat prominent. Juliet does not follow the typical ladylike ideals of that time, she does things that are frowned upon in order to be with Romeo, and they are her decisions. In Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is extremely far from the female stereotype. She goes so far as to tell Macbeth to be the type of person that she should stereotypically be; She tells him to "look pretty"! Maybe Shakespeare is a strong believer in gender equality?
DeleteIn the play Macbeth specifically, there is an obvious gender reversal. In modern day society, men and women are basically treated equally, but that was not always the case. In Shakespere's day, men were considered the stronger gender because they would be the ones working, and bringing in an income, while the women were considered weaker because they would "work at home" (cooking, cleaning, taking care of children). In order to make his characters stand out, Shakespeare uses gender reversal. Anyone who would be reading his play or watching it for the first time would be taken aback at the abrubptness of Lady Macbeth, and her characteristics. Lady Macbeth takes the role of taking charge, and Macbeth goes along with it. She believes that if she wasn't the one taking charge, there wouldn't be anyone doing it. Shakespeare uses many techniques in order to make his work stand out, and this is just one of them.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do agree with you on the reason on why Shakespeare switched the gender roles, I do not agree with your thoughts on the equality in todays world. Really only in the devolved world do women have closer gender equality, but places that are still underdeveloped, and who represent a large amount of the population still struggle with such. In places in Asia where there is a limit on how many children a family can have, people dump baby girls off just on the fact that they are girls, leaving them to die. With so many violent acts today it is hard to remember that there are still girls out there, who do not have a voice, and who do not get to get the simplest things such as a basic education.
DeleteI also agree on your reasoning behind Shakespeare's motives to using gender reversal. However, I disagree with you on gender equality in today's society. Deffiantly gender equality is much better than what it use to be, women can vote, hold a job and live freely on their own. However, women are still currently being treated differently. For example, women are still being paid less in some work places and often don't receive equal respect. On even bigger scale, currently in you Uzbekistan their leader who is a dictator, is forcing doctors to cut out women's uterus, as a form of birth control, without any consent of the woman. This is being forced upon women and not men, so therefore their freedom is being taken away. Yes, some countries are farther ahead of others, but to have a general statement that human beings are closer to equality is a bit far fetched.
DeleteI agree with your idea on how Shakespeare reversed the roles of genders so it would surprise the audience and make his work stand out among the rest. Also, In my own opinion, this gender reversal technique was also used so it could reach a broader audience in those times, it would interest the men and women by the fact Lady Macbeth plays a huge part in the story and is a strong, independent, manipulative character.
Delete-Kevin Lomas
In his play, Macbeth, William Shakespeare decided to contradict stereotypes. In the simplest of terms, I believe Shakespeare was a firm believer in the fact that gender roles should not limit a person. The reason for this is that certain characters in his play seem to act out of the ordinary. The most obvious would be Lady Macbeth; she is clearly one of the most greedy and manipulative women in all of literature. She wants the crown, perhaps more than Macbeth himself, and won’t let anything get in her way. She seems like she is single-handedly ready to kill Duncan herself if she has to. She is famously quoted as saying “unsex me here,” which means to rid her of any feminine sensitivities. Lady Macbeth doesn’t have an ounce of compassion in her and from her dialogues, one can conclude she would much rather be a man than a woman. To add to her masculinity, Macbeth is a passive husband. He is easily influenced by his wife and obeys her orders; he loses all the ability to think for himself. Lady Macbeth even goes as far as questioning Macbeth’s manhood to trick him into doing what she wants him to do. During Shakespeare’s time period, gender roles played a huge role in the way people lived. Women’s lives were very limited in the jobs they could hold and the freedoms they had, unlike their male counterparts. Shakespeare, being a risk taker might have wanted to test grounds and switch roles between men and women. It wasn’t ordinary for men to take a back seat when the women planned everything out. I believe Shakespeare was an advocate for gender equality, why else would he have such controversial characters? He proves that a woman can do anything a man can and that men can take instructions from women. Of course, in this specific case Lady Macbeth is a lunatic and perhaps too power hungry and Macbeth too submissive but the fact is that Shakespeare reversed the roles to get the audience thinking.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I liked how you talked about Lady Macbeth wanting to be more of a man and not having any feminine sensitivities. Also, your point on Macbeth's passiveness adding to her masculinity was interesting.I completely agree with your opinion on the topic. I think Shakespeare wouldn't have made such drastic changes to Lady Macbeth and Macbeth if he wasn't trying to say something about gender equality. Of course there is the theatrical aspect of the play. You could say Shakespeare reversed the roles for theatrics but such controversial characters could not just be for entertainment. He took a risk to prove his point that women are just as strong and equal to men.
DeleteI think that in the play Macbeth, William Shakespeare has switched the stereotypical roles of the genders. Normally in the time Macbeth took place, the women's only jobs was to cook meals, clean the house and have children, while the men hunted and fought in wars like men do. But in Macbeth things are different, the roles are switched. A good example of this is Macbeth himself and his wife Lady Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is the boss, Macbeth takes orders from her, making her more manly. Whatever she wants done Macbeth will do, he is completely under her power. But the interesting thing is that when Macbeth is away from his wife he is the most manly man alive, the greatest and most feared fighter out there. But at home the female rules and the male follows.
ReplyDeleteYou point out something we all seem to have missed; when Macbeth is at home he is completely under Lady Macbeth's control as she is the boss of the house, holding all power. But, when he is not at home he is the most manly and beastly warrior of all time, fearing absolutely nothing and taking his orders only from the king. I think it is important to note this, because it shows that although the gender stereotype has been switched, it has not been completely switched. This is true because yes, lady Macbeth is definitely the opposite, but Macbeth is only the opposite when he is with her. When he is not with her, he is just the stereotypical man of those times.
DeleteI agree, I think we've all missed that point on how the genders aren't completely reversed. But I feel as though Macbeth is manly away from home because of the influence of Lady Macbeth. If I was Macbeth, I'd need somewhere to unleash all the emotion that crazy woman would make me feel. I also feel as though he feels the need to prove his manhood and that's why he's such a good fighter. He lets his wife push him around and it probably just hurts his dignity.
DeleteI agree aswell. In Macbeth and Lady Macbeth's relationship, the roles are completely reversed. However, outside of that, the stereotypes of the "tough guy" still hold true for Macbeth. This leans toward gender equality because both of them have a "manly part" in the relationship.
Deletei agree, i think that when macbeth is out fighting his wars he gives it his all and dosent look back like a good soldier would, but when he gets home to his wife its almost like she has a spell on him that makes him do what she wants. Either that or macbeth lacks a backbone and dosent want to lose his beloved wife so he listens to here every word in fear of her leaving him.
DeleteBack in the Shakespearean time, gender roles were something that was set in stone; women could do the house work, raise the children, and pat her husband on the back. Men were to fight in wars, bring glory to the family name, and have as many more baby boys as he could. Even though today the situation that both genders find themselves is much less set in stone, things are still unequal. Boys are taught at a young age to “suck it up, and real boys don’t cry” and girl are told to “sit like a lady, and play the mom the dress up”. Though in Shakespeare play “Macbeth” he pushed theses so call set in stone gender roles and made Lady Macbeth, the strong, ruthless and violent person that a warrior like Macbeth would seem to be. This pushed every thought about gender roles, but I do not believe that he supported gender quality in this play, only that he wanted to push the idea of a switch in gender roles. Lady Macbeth realizes that if she is to become a strong and cruel person that can get the job done she must first strip herself of all things that would tie her back, one main thing that she seems to be holding her back is the fact that she is still a women. So in reality Shakespeare is stating that even Lady Macbeth knew that a woman could never do theses things and would first have to strip her feminine attributes.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you completely! The part where Lady Macbeth is saying, "unsex me here" really proves what you are trying to say. I think you're right with saying that Lady Macbeth wants to strip herself from her femininity, so she can become a ruthless man, and show her true self.
DeleteMichelle, your spin on the topic is very interesting. I like how you talked about the fact that in order for Lady Macbeth to gain any recognition and power, she had to rid herself of her femininity. I hadn't thought about it like that. In the process of switching stereotypes, Shakespeare still maintained one of the biggest stereotypes; that the male race is the only dominant one. Even when wanting to take charge and come off as powerful, Lady Macbeth couldn't act like a woman because being pretty and polite would get her nowhere. Perhaps equality might not have been Shakespeare’s first priority?
DeleteIn Macbeth, I think it is quite apparent that the gender stereotype from Shakespeare's time has been reversed. During his time period, women were rather powerless in comparison to men. The men "ran the show". Yet, as we read Macbeth we discover that Lady Macbeth is very much in charge of her relationship with Macbeth. She makes it incredibly clear. What is unclear for me is the purpose of this role reversal. I agree with some people that it is Shakespeare's attempt to create a more interesting play. On the other hand, I feel as though Shakespeare was more concerned with his writing than wether or not people found it more interesting. Which would lead me to believe that perhaps he believes that although men are said to be in charge, and appear as though they are, women are actually the authoritative figure in relationships. This perspective makes since when we consider the fact that Lady Macbeth is manipulating Macbeth but no one knows that except the two people within the relationship; Macbeth and her. So, is Shakespeare saying that secretly, within every relationship, the woman is the power figure? I think so.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy your idea on what Shakespeare is trying to show with the role reversal. To be honest, I never thought of that approach and it's interesting to look at the reversal from that point of view.
DeleteI think your idea of Shakespeare worrying more about his writing is true. The idea of the gender reversal doesn't really pop out of the play right away as a first thought unless you think about it. I don't think people watching the play instantly thought "WOAH they're reversed" and thought it was interesting, it's one of those after play thoughts. I also like your idea of him secretly saying that every relationship ends up with the woman wearing the pants. I think that's true because at the end of the day, no man wants to anger his wife because they know how scary women can really get.
DeleteAh, it's interesting how you left your post with a question for us to ponder on. While it's true that today it's common for a lot of households to have the women on top, it might not be the case back then. It would be a big embarassment for the men, who with the use of your words, "ran the show", to be under their partner's authority so this was kept a secret. And I believe Shakespeare is trying to tell us that it's not just them who has that setup.
DeleteWOW! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that! I really enjoyed how you left the reader think about whether women control the relationship, or men. From my perspective, I think women control the relationship, even though is always thought to be men. For example, when a couple gets a divorce, men are always seen at fault, but no one sides against the women, everyone just feels bad for her. Women can have very negative influence though, and although I can't say from experience, we unknowingly verbally abuse men. I believe these hurtful skills are acquired in high school when drama goes down between girls.
DeleteI also agree with the idea that Shakespeare is secretly showing that the woman in every relationship ship have the power over the men. So far its only been shown through Macbeth and his wife, but i feel this could be the seen with any relationship in this story. Also the only other women introduced to the story so farhas been the witches, and they all seem like if they ever found a man, or thing, the witches would still have the power over the male.
DeleteI find this point interesting. Women can be quite manipulative and attack individuals in more of a verbal way instead of being physical. like Lady MacBeth trying to convince and threaten MacBeth, and using the smashing babies heads on rocks concept. But on the other hand men as well could have power in their own way. Men can be verbally abusive in some ways but not as much as females are. I found your points interesting though!
DeleteIn Shakespeare's Macbeth, roles a certain gender takes are reversed. Lady Macbeth proves to be a strong, independent, crazy partner, a role commonly given to men in writing and Macbeth is a strategic thinker with strong feelings of guilt, a role commonly given to woman. Lady Macbeth devised the plan to kill the king so Macbeth would be become king, by herself. Macbeth was second guessing everything, and was playing a more sideline role in all of this plan. The reason for this could have been the fact that no other plays had this kind of dynamic at the time and this idea of the women are in charge presented something new.
ReplyDeleteI like how you related the thought process behind Macbeth and Lady Macbeth's actions to the more stereotypical thoughts for their genders. I also agree with what your saying about how this was the first play of its time to really use a gender/roll reversal like this, I completely over looked this until now.
Delete- (edit) Kevin Lomas
DeleteKevin, I liked how brought up the point that no other play at this time had ever used this gender switching before. I agree with what you have brought up, and as well like Oliver, fully over looked this concept. Many people at this time would have found this very offensive if they heard that a women wanted to get out of the house and go drinking, or fight front lines in a war. Nowadays, if a woman wanted to manly activities, that is seen as a normal thing. I also agree with your describing of Lady Macbeth when you said she was a "crazy partner". Those two words describe her perfectly.
DeleteIn Mac Beth , i see the roles of men to women to be represented as stereotyped and switched. The witches were the first example women that look like men doing things that really noone would do, but when one of the witches curse a young womens husband just because of a chestnut, that didnt seem to feminizing.Also theres lady mac beth , now that is one crazy lady. The whole unsex me now thing on the balcony... not to feminine like if you ask me , and telling to Macbeth , "the man" to stand by and let her take care of the king. Seems like Macbeth is not wearing the pants in this relationship. what i would have to say is in some cases in the play the roles are changed between men and women and what they represent.
ReplyDeleteI like how you connected switching gender roles with the witches because a lot of us may have overlooked that. Shakespeare definitely did make the three of them seem manly and very unfeminine-like, not just in appearance wise, but also the way they acted. You have a valid point in bringing out the part of one of the witches wanting to hurt woman’s husband just because she wouldn’t give her chestnuts. That bit is relevant because her actions were uncalled for. Everyone seeks vengeance at some point in their live but she just seems ruthless in wanting to go after the one the woman loves the most, in this case being her husband. Not very nurturing or womanly at all.
DeleteIncluding the witches in your response was quite clever. I definitely did not think about that, and it connects nicely. Macbeth is one hundred percent not wearing the pants in the relationship. He is very easily convinced by Lady Macbeth to commit an unforgivable crime, which he is completely against doing. He doesn't seem to have any power between them.
DeleteI never thought about the witches at all, but it does make sense the points you stated. The witches appear quite unfeminine in every aspect in the way they live, whether it's appearance, personality or just the way they act around each other, they all appear manly. Which shows gender reversal between men and women.
DeleteThe way I see it the gender rolls in Macbeth are both forward and reversed. At the start of the play the rolls are forward, Macbeth being the stereotypical man of his time and Lady Macbeth as a stereotypical woman. Macbeth was out fighting in the war and getting stuff done, while his wife was at home doing house work and whatnot. But as the play progressed and we see Lady Macbeth interacting with Macbeth, "the man" of the relationship the rolls quickly become reversed. As soon as Lady Macbeth hears about the prophecy from the witch's she just takes complete control of Macbeth and tells him that she'll handle everything and that he doesn't need to worry about it, and Macbeth just goes along with her and agrees with everything.
ReplyDeleteI like your idea. It seems as though on the outside, everything seems completely normal and Lady Macbeth and Macbeth seem like a stereotypical couple. But when you take a closer look and they're put into a situation where one of them has to take control and be the boss of the other, the roles are reversed.
DeleteIn the play Macbeth, Shakespeare has decided to break the status quo. In a time period where women are seen as the weaker gender and men are stronger and superior, Shakespeare decides to reverse the stereptypical roles.I think Shakespeare believes women are stronger and play a larger role in a relationship than what is known. When we are introduced to Lady Macbeth she is portrayed as very strong and powerful woman. Usually woman are known as being frail and innocent but Lady Macbeth holds none of these characteristics. Quickly, she decides to murder the king for her own selfish desires and supresses any emotion that could interfere with her task. Furthermore, Macbeth is shown to be more of the woman in the relationship. He continously fights with his inner desires knowing they are wrong and is shown to be more emotional. Later, Lady Macbeth convinces Macbeth to murder the king even though he is still hesitant to do so. Lady Macbeth controls their relationship and Macbeth obeys her commands.
ReplyDeleteShakespeare seems to be a adovcate for gender equality by portraying Lady Macbeth as such a powerful and prominent person.-tavleen s.
I like the fact that you talked about Shakespeare wanting women play a larger role in a relationship than what is really known. I agree completely because as they say, “behind every successful man there is a wise woman.” Often at times, even when not meaning to, people do forget the variety of roles women play in our everyday lives: as mothers and grandmothers, sisters, daughters, friends, wives, girlfriends and whatever else it may be. The positions women hold nowadays goes beyond anything people a couple hundred years ago could even fathom. There is nothing stopping a woman from doing the same job a man does and in many cases it is also okay for the woman to hold a higher position. Lady Macbeth is clearly crazy but Shakespeare has given her a powerful role and I agree that proves he was an advocate for gender equality.
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ReplyDeleteIn Macbeth, there was gender-reversal between the characters. It's stereotypical for women to do the work around the house -- the cooking, cleaning, taking care of the children, while men go out to work for income in order to provide for their families. Shakespeare switched these roles with Macbeth and Lady Macbeth.
ReplyDeleteLady Macbeth was more of the "man of the house" in such that whatever she orders, Macbeth does. Even when Macbeth changed his mind about his plans to kill the king, she doubted his manliness. She then tells Macbeth not to worry because she has everything taken care of.
Shakespeare is showing us how stereotypical norms are a thing of the past, making the play interesting, realistic, and something we can relate to how it is today. Women can do what men do, just as much as men can also do what women do. This makes gender-equality the main theme of Macbeth.
I agree with your statement on how Lady Macbeth was given a more masculine role to break social norms and create interest around the play with just that fact alone. I also agree with gender-equality being one of the main themes in this play, being as women were not considered by men as able as men were at the time this play was conceived.The play gave a new perspective on women in stories in the idea that just because of someones gender doesn't mean they have the best intentions and can't be a threat.
Delete-Kevin Lomas
DeleteIn Macbeth the the obvious "gender roles" of male and female are definitely swapped. I don't necessarily think that Shakespeare was making a statement about gender. I also don't think this was because Shakespeare was a feminist or even an advocate of gender equality. Especially because in this time period there was no such idea. I do think he was a trouble-maker of sorts because he took the situations he was observing around him and wrote the exact opposite of what he saw. I think he used the gender-reversal as more of a metaphor to make a statement about his view of society. Almost to say that a women (aka: a pretty face) which can represent anything, perhaps a situation or person, that may look appealing from the outside or have a certain reputation. Then when you look deeper you find that they are not what you would expect them to be like, for example Lady Macbeth. She, being a women, is expected to be a certain way but turns out to be the complete opposite of any womanly stereotype. So though i don't believe Macbeth was originally written to advocate gender equality it also doesn't continue or feed any gender stereotypes. Either way Shakespeare was writing about subjects way before his time, wether he knew it or not.
ReplyDeleteTyler said
ReplyDeleteIn Shakespeare's Macbeth, the role of genders play a pivotal role for the utter irony of the play. especially for the time period a woman (i.e. Lady Macbeth) telling a man what to do when he is the lord of the manner is almost unheard of. Shakespeare does not write this way to show gender equality thou, it seems that he has written the entire play thus far to match itself ("fair is foul, foul is fair"). i use Lady Macbeth as an example again, at first she is portrayed as the "fair" lady of the manner, and yet not even 2 scenes after we meet her she becomes a "foul" psychotic wretch who has a firm grip on Macbeth.
In Shakespeare's MacBeth, I think he is being stereotypical in terms of gender but to the fullest extent. He formed Macbeth into being a typical and heroic man, so far we see that he is a brave and powerful man at the time, on top of that he was on his way to becoming king. However, Lady MacBeth, being far from the typical woman, is not stereotypical at all. She is seen as overpowering, overwhelming, controlling and definitely a woman with a typical man's qualities.
ReplyDeleteIn general, I think there was a definite reversal between the genders in characters. A perfect example being Macbeth and Lady Macbeth.
I agree with most of what you're saying. Macbeth does seem like the typical heroic character. But when Lady Macbeth comes in, that view is changed. I don't think that a typical man is overwhelming.
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ReplyDeleteI believe that Shakespeare's opinion on gender isn't the same as others at his time. He seems to be ahead of his time, from what I see when I am reading. He may make a woman for example more, "manly," but I think his means were to prove that women can do more in society back in that era. Now-a-days women are equal and have more rights unlike back then. I think Shakespeare could almost tell that in the future that women would be able to contribute more and do more with themselves then within the time he lived on this earth. The gender roles in the play , "MacBeth," can appear reversed at times, but not on a constant basis. Lady MacBeth appears to be manly, quite violent and crazy at times. Like when she talked about smashing babies heads on rocks, this appears something a man would say not a woman. While MacBeth himself was told to look pretty, and he stayed submissive like many of the women that lived in that era. I believe on those facts Shakespeare was an advocate of equality and appeared to recognize that each person male or female could be who they want to be without the generalized stereotypes that follow each gender.
ReplyDeleteYour point about how women could do more in that era and how society has changed equality for women definitely changed my views on this. I think Shakespeare's gender reversal was completely unintentional but rather normal and seen as common society back in their days.
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ReplyDeleteNathan I agree with your points in your first comment. Back in those days women where supposed to tend to the kids the house and their husband. While the husband work to provide for the family. But in my opinion Lady Macbeth looks like the one running the show and Macbeth is just the one that follows what ever orders he is given
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