Wednesday, April 11, 2012
The Theme: "Fair is foul and foul is fair..." (Block B)
We are introduced to the theme of the play very early on. The theme of "fair is foul and foul is fair" implies a definite reversal of what is supposed to be the natural order of how things are supposed to work in the world. For you first discussion, you are to talk about how this theme shows itself in our society and whether or not there is any chance of it changing. Be sure to use actual examples and state your reasons for your opinions.
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For me I see 'fair is foul and foul is fair'-good is bad, bad is good- on TV and in our society all the time. For example Jersey Shore. Millions of people watch young men and women getting drunk at clubs and grinding with strangers as well as taking them home every week. People love watching the cast members swear, drink, and many other things thought to be immoral and not a very good influence. This is a horrible influence, but our society thinks its great and love it! we don't see shows about helping the sick and dying, being charitable or anything thought to be 'good' as much on TV because most don't think it is good, or fun like other trash we see on television. I can't see this changing for the better, all most people crave these days is sex, booze, violence and mindless fun!
ReplyDeleteI can't agree with this more. It is also everywhere in our video games. The best examples are Call of Duty (COD) and Grand Theft Auto (GTA). In COD the main objective is to kill your opponent. To apply it to fair is foul, having fun (fair) involves killing other people, and killing other people is obviously bad (foul). As well the foul is fair part, it is bad that we are killing people, but yet we get rewarded and bragging rights from doing so. And for GTA, anyone who has played that game can understand, 99% of the game is drugs, killing people, and breaking the law in thousands of ways, just because its fun. And because of this I also have to say that it wont change any time soon because too many people find joy in such things
Deleteto reply to sterling, its because the media has desensitized us to those types of things. Through the media companies and the government have influenced us in a way that we have convinced ourselves that because we are men we must enjoy "manly" things such as playing video games where the requirement is the break the law, or kill said person. Both Companies and the Government do this for their own gain. Companies do this to buy and sell things and the government either supports them because they want our tax money or for some secret agenda of their own entirely. Realistically we are all just pawns of the media.
Deleteyah i agree with dion we all are slaves to the media beacause no matter what your personal views are on something if the media thinks that this is something good you will eventually start agreeing with the media on things you may not realise it but eventually you will for example there have been lots of songs that i have hated when they came out but when every one in the media started to say wow this is a good song i eventually started to agree
DeleteAlthough I do agree that media does make us do certain things and think a certain way, I believe that doing bad things to get good things is just the way of nature. People have waged war on one another since the earliest recorded history for resources, land and wealth. Even apes, our closest biological counterpart, slaughter each other for females (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3317461/Apes-of-war...-is-it-in-our-genes.html). Back in gladiator times people used to feed people to the lions for entertainment, and Christians, who swear by a book that preaches peace, kill others to try to earn salvation (http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/crusades.stm). In recent history there has been war raged in almost every continent of the world for land and resources (http://www.friendsoftibet.org/main/today.html). People who own large businesses underpay workers so they may make a better profit (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100527171055AAa0Paz). Point being is that its natural (yet awful) that people do bad things to get good things in return, whether its a Christian seeking salvation or a business Emperor wanting more money.
Deletestefannnn,, pleasseee dont say war , competition, rivalry survival anything but war! Knowing what "war" is to the world today slightly contrasts what your point is , to me at least :S i mean for resources, land and wealth while also recognizing that what we consider "wealth" today is completely not was considered wealth back in the day.. Although i do not support war, i do recognize while pondering these ideas that part of living is surviving and it is only nature to want to live and not die,, so i do not deny that "violence" is part of our genes .. to an extent =) i wont get into religion :) oh and for your last point , just keep in mind that what you might see as bad or good may differ from other perspectives.
DeleteI totally agree with Layla. You made very excellent points! All kids want to do these days is "get crazy" and by seeing this everywhere (magazines, tv, movies, etc..) i would say it motivates them to do these things because of seeing famous people doing it. I also don't see us changing for the better at all! This is just going to manafest into our further generations and its just going to progressively get worse and worse.
DeleteI disagree with Tanner on the point he made about the media causing people to like things. I like things that other people don't, But that might just be me, I'm not sure. I think that people who like to follow what other people do might get sucked into the media and follow what they see their peers doing, but personally, I like to do what I like. i.e. songs that I like and games.
DeleteNo disrespect to your point, but I just wanted to point that out.
For Shelby, thanks for the "rewording", and I do understand that the issue of what is good and bad is a little "iffy". However, like the Lord Of the Flies discussion, I am basing what is good and bad on common local society standards.
DeleteI don't want this to get marked, just expressing gratitude for the advice and wished to clarify my piece.
In reply to Sterling about the video games, I completely agree with you on GTA. But games like Call of Duty were originally made to target a 18+ audience. They designed the game for people who would understand the HUGE difference between video games and reality. Unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible parents that let their children play these games, creating a "fair is foul and foul is fair" philosiphy.
Delete...is this possible?
DeleteI've been skimming these comments (sorry, kinda on the go lol), and I've noticed: We have a pretty good grasp on what is happening in the world. How are we slaves to the media? We dont have to follow it. Nobody is forcing it down our throats. We CHOSE to follow it. Or some of us have, as Jeremy has shown. We can easily break out of the trends the media sets for us, easily throw away our way of thinking that, doing a bad thing will yield reward. We just seem to be too lazy to try. And, i think Cory mentioned this, if the world is progressively going to get worse as it manifests in further generations, we can at least try to weed it out, by educating the next generation, as in our kids.
This is a really good example for fair is foul and foul is fair. I agree with this, Though I personally, never watched Jersey shore (except for when we were doing the filming for the Greek Tragedy and Haleys house x3) I didnt like watching it or appreciate the media letting stuff like that go on tv..but I know a lot of people like watching stuff like that and thats why its so popular even though the show probably has a lot of sins in it..which we should turn away from and wash our eyes with holy water for watching it (lol)
DeleteThe theme "fair is foul and foul is fair" is applied everyday around the world which is ironic because it is a paradox. Every time you read the news and watch TV something bad is always happening, such as the Korean missile crisis, or gang warfare on the street. However the people who do these bad things don't do it because it is bad, but because they get something out of it, either because of money, power, sadistic attitudes, etc. Take the fast food industry for example, as we know fast food is usually one of the most unhealthy things you can eat. The makers of this food are obviously aware of this, yet continue to sell them for cheap and add addictive substances to it such as mass amounts of sugar, caffeine, and fat (http://banzhaf.net/docs/newsci.html). This is fast food corporations taking advantage of people by selling cheap, addictive, yet good tasting toxins to us just so they can make money. I can rant for several thousands of words about fast food industry but I digress. The idea of people who do bad things and get good things in return isn't exactly new, as you can see it on every street that has a store that underpays employees or takes advantage of the customer. You can see it in the world which children not even half our age are working in sweat shops for 10 cents an hour for Nike or Adidas to make severely overpriced shoes. You can see it in the world in which drug dealers sell narcotics to teenagers still in highschool. You can see it in the world by watching the news in which guerilla fighters are bashed for defending their families while the invaders are praised as heroes. I believe that this cannot be stopped, as people will be people. We are the smartest beings in the world and aim to push ourselves to greatness no matter what, even if you have to step on a few fingers, or in politics, slit a few throats.
ReplyDeleteStefan, I agree with all of what you said. When you said "they don't do it because its bad, but because they get something out of it" that really spoke to me because that is the truth about it they only do it to get a profit or value out of it. Your topic on the fast food corporations made me think of another branch of that which would be liquor stores. They sell products that are basically poison, and all it does is kill you slowly but yet they continue to sell it and make millions of dollars off of it and the same thing goes for cigarettes.
DeleteI agree to what you said as well Stefan, with all your points, and I just wanted to mention to Cory that I would never have even thought about the Liquor industry in the sense that you are mentioning. It makes perfect sense but it didn't even pop into my mind for a second.
DeleteI wanted to say that I agree with the both of you completely on what you are saying.
Stephan, I agree with your all points, especially the point about drug dealers. It somehow made me think of the drug dealers and a business man. They ILLEGALLY sell drugs and earn MORE money than an honest business man working hard, trying not to get fired. This is so unfair. I guess this is how a real world works. I think in real life, people don’t really care about good and bad, but wealth and reputation.
DeleteGreat points made. People aren't bad, they just want power, (who could blame another on that?)and today's form of power is money, most of the time, one must do rather bad things to achieve more, examples being posts made by Stefan above.
DeleteAgreed! The quote "they don't do it because its bad, but because they get something out of it" reminds me of the pure evilness of Lady Macbeth that we've read about her so far. It clearly explained how she doesn't care that killing Duncan the king is bad, all she cares about is how her husband can replace the current king, and she gets to be the queen (by committed a murder).
DeleteYet, if we think about her intention, she was only worried that her husband is "too kind-hearted" to get the title of the king. Thus, spring from her crave for power, she planned the murder. She could have been the reminder to keep Macbeth ambitious, instead of "plan the murder for him" on her own. That is what really made her a evil character. Because after all, it is human nature that we crave for power. (even Banquo has the ambition of knowing how his future will be when he first met the witches)
To apply the theme ‘fair is foul and foul is fair’ to society I think of the profit successful businesses gain even though what they sell damages our environment. For example, millions of trees get chopped down each year to supply companies to make paper, houses, etc. and because there is such a high demand, people believe that since there is such an abundance, consumers assume that it will never run out. This applies to the theme because though people know that factories are a big cause of pollution, they still buy their products. And somehow, because everyone does it, that makes it okay. I don’t believe that this will change because most of us live in the moment and we don’t think about the consequences we’ll have to go through when we don’t have enough fresh water or other resources because it won’t happen in our lifetime!
ReplyDeleteAnother idea is that everyone is equal and should be treated that way. In other parts of the world, this is not so. In China, there is a large gender imbalance in their population. Girls are looked down upon and many are abandoned or subjected to abortion. Males are the viewed as the superior gender and though the government established a one child only policy, it does not stop people from violating it or stop girls from being dumped in orphanages. Treating a particular gender better isn’t ‘good’ but rather it is the accepted norm in some cultures.
Many successful businesses gain profit from damaging not just our living environments, but also the other organisms'. I agree with you that it is because there is high demand from consumers, the factories will never stop making the products of course! It is the people who keep on saying they want to help to save our planet, yet they are the ones indirectly supporting the factories. No offense. I'm not blaming anyone, but I strongly agree with you, Zoey, that this situation will not change because most of us live in the moment. And we just simply need those resources...
DeleteI like the point you brought up about business, it is probably the biggest example of this theme in our international world.
DeleteThat’s a really good point you bring up, Beverly! Not only are we destroying our environment, but also all the organisms and habitats. It is foul because we may be endangering certain species just to benefit ourselves. This also relates to hunting animals for sport. For some people, hunting innocent animals is fun. Not only can they get a thrill out of it, but they can make money off pelts or preserve parts of the animal as a symbol of pride. Yes, there are laws banning this sort of activity, but people will continue to do it if they don’t get caught.
DeleteI agree with you Zoey, sometimes human being seems to be a bit too selfish. We are so used to destroy the environment to get what we need, and we look at it as a "good business". Yes it does create lots of jobs, but at the same time we're killing our living place. This makes me think that maybe we're just another tragic story. we had great life and lots of resources,then we discover more and more and used up more and more. Then what if one day there'e no more resource left?Nothing is endless, and yes we're still trying to squeeze out as much as possible.
DeleteYou can apply the theme "fair is foul and foul is fair" to many aspects of society nowadays. However, one place I tend to see it more than anywhere else is at school. Hundreds of thousands of kids who don't bother doing homework, skipping class and not taking notes for example. Most kids talk about how they dream of having no homework and how not doing any school work is "cool" because it means you don't care about anything. In most high schools around the world being "cool" is good. Actually, its considered the best because it means your at the top of the food chain. When in reality all of that is the exact opposite. Not caring about your education and doing any of your work is bad. You develop horrible work ethics and you screw yourself over in the long run if you plan to go to any post-secondary institution. That's an example of foul is fair. An example for fair is foul in the school system are how kids who do well in school and put effort into furthering their education are bullied. People (usually the ones considered "cool") call them names, push them, etc. Why is it the people who are trying to do well for themselves and contribute to society rather than hinder it are the ones who get the sort end of the stick? I wish I could tell you, but that just goes to show the type of world we live in.
ReplyDeleteThis is Dion BTW my bad.
DeleteWhile a thing cannot not be fair, whilst foul, what was once fair can become foul, and vice versa, and a thing can be fair, but through foul means or ends (and vice versa). There are things in life right now which we can in no way condemn as foul. These are the basic necessities of life, physical beauty, just as what is fundamentally foul can never be fair. These things, these objects and ideas are incontrovertible in their being. Nothing is ever altered concerning their state lest they become another thing in itself. The act of killing will always remain just that, embezzlement, generosity. A photograph of a person will never change, the picture will remain long past its era. It is not true that what is Fair is foul on the person of the photograph (concerning his fashion and attire), and what is foul is fair, rightly it is what we once thought to be fair is now foul, and what was once thought foul now seems fair. In the epoch of the person of the aforementioned photograph, the appearance of the person has never changed since, will never changed, captured as a spark of a different time. Perhaps in that time that person could have been considered very favourablly fashionable, and very attractive. 100 years forward in time though, and the appearance in the photograph has not changed. Now however, more likely than not ,the perception of that man whom stares unchanged, is suddenly foul. No doubt, what is fair to us now, culturally and fashionably would be as alienably foul to their eyes. That truth is that nothing changes about the object but our perception of the object.
DeleteThere are as well though, the two faced slys, those that are truly fair, whilst foul. This lies as a condition. Many things have brought good, through evil foul deeds, and as well the cliché "I had the best intentions" follows the worst of disasters. In our culture, our lifestyle is a result of an economic advantage, and foul underlying business resulting from the unrelenting competition of Capitalism. Every loophole is taken in a contract, in law, in the Constitution to the Magna Carta. It is widely known how Nike pays pennies in our currency to foreign companies, with long grueling hours leading to suicidal workers (FoxCONN). This is true for almost every globally competitive mass product. It is true for Nike, Adidas, every clothing manufacturer, every shoe manufacturer, really every company trying to get the competitive edge peeling cents off the retail price. What is foully made, is made to sell for a fair price. But it is also true that what is fair is sold at a foul price. Self-labelled "luxury brands" will add $100, $1000, for the due of $10 of more expensive, desirable material. And so there are two opposite extremities, what is fair but foul, and what is foul but fair. Mexico currently faces a war on drugs due to the drug cartels and gang Bosses murdering whole villages, entire police forces, so powerful they have the capability to withstand crackdowns from Army and Police forces to the extent that Police corruption is a rising issue in their war. This is due to our consumption of illegal substances or drugs. Simply due to the demand of the legally unavailable substances, Mexico faces a 3 to 4 time higher death rate than USA. Yet a simple decision to end use of drugs is impossible due to our pursuit of fair sensual stimulation, but foul in process.
There is a biological process in the labelling in what is "fair", and "foul" I believe though. It is true as Zoey said that there is a serious gender imbalance in not ONLY China, but as well India, and most third and second rate countries of the world. It is statistically shown that the higher the poverty of a country, the higher the percentage of males. The traditional belief is that males are more able to do labourous work, and are thus more useful for a peasant family relying on the strength and durability of it's members, any perceived hindrance is shed. This is a cruel but brutally prudent opinion. Of course cultural, and religious views play a role in the opinion, yet then it is true in their case that what is foul for us, is perfectly fair to them. But what should be learnt is that what if fair, and what is foul must apply to the first law, survival. If such a thing should aid this ability, it must be fair. If a thing should hinder this ability, it must be foul. This is a first plane of law. When survival is not a matter of concern, then the next plane is sensually. If the thing appeals to our senses, to our touch, taste, if it sounds pleasing, if it is stimulatingly soothing, if it is physically or sexually attractive, any sensually pleasurable thing is fair on this plane. What is sensually disturbing, or un-pleasurable is then foul. The third plane is society. Humans have developed their interaction, survival and success to hinge solely on their success in society. Thus, what societally marks a person is important in an established society. This can also be called class distinction. Class distinction is sadly discrimitive, yet it is a ways to judge from appearance, manner and countenance the general well being of the person in question. Jewels, Designer clothing and rarities are most often the most desirable sensually and attractively, but not always to the self, but as a whole and on reputation. So a person may wear Gucci bags, Louis Vitton, and drive expensive cars with expensive things simply for the rewards of class distinction. What then is most desired, most rare, most prized is what adorns the societally fair, and the poverished are then societally foul. This impulse should even be the second plane, so important is standing in our social hierarchy, due to the benefits. These impulses stem though mostly biologically, as the innate need to become as dominant or prominent as possible, dating to hunting tribes and Neanderthals, all the way back to troops of apes swinging in the jungle. Evolution has reduced the need for this impulse though, but it's importance is still due.
DeleteFrom this, what is foul and what is fair can never change in terms of the first plane, survival. However, the second plane may not change necessarily, but the standing of the object may diminish as new better, more pleasing objects may rise above in rating. The human taste buds will change every 7 years, so where ketchup was once fair, it may one day taste foul. It is true that what is fair is foul and foul is fair on substance abuse though. These substances or drugs produce a pleasing state or reaction. It is well known though the foul damages done to the body. The self-dubbed third plane, Societal standings, are subjective to cultural appeal, and fashionability really. They are always limited to what is attractive, but the form may change to inspire different views of attraction. The aim is to create desire, therefore foul and fair apply as to what is desirable.
What's foul is fair and fair is foul then applies only to our perceived needs, based on our state of survivability (standard of life). The many defining 'needs' are therefore determinant .
just a quick question.. why did you post your reply to Mr. Os question as a response to my response to Mr. O's question?
Deleteand why did you respond to Zoeys post on my post... and not respond to mind at all... :'(
Deletethis is a reply to yours Dion,
Deleteuhhh it kinda seems like your describing the like stereotypical American school .. because like i can think of plenty of "cool" people who do well in school and are proud of it.. if you look at our school its not really like that ,, i mean i haven't ever seen anyone legitimately get teased or picked on for being too smart? i mean there is a lot wrong with the way school works like extremely, but i don't have straight A's in school, and i also don't fail everyone of my classes, i don't do nothing but i don't do everything, i hate school and would prefer not to come, but i do my best to go, and i do my best while im in class .. am i thus going no where in life because i don't have the grades to get into university right after high school? no i know I'm doing something epic with my life, i agree with your post but it seems like your lumping everyone in a single category, being popular and unpopular .. when i know some "cool" people that wouldnt ever do that :P and you did .. hmmmmmm
i didn't notice i posted it as a response, i'll try to delete it lol
DeleteShelby and Dion I agree with both of you on the school thing. I agree with Shelby that it is the stereotypical American school, that nobody actually gets teased and that people who don’t have perfect grades can get somewhere in life, but I also agree with what Dion said. I think there kind of is a boundary between people that put a lot of effort into school and aren’t considered to be “cool” and the people who don’t really put as much effort into school and are considered “cool”. But I don’t think it’s a definite boundary or anything, I just think that its influenced a lot by movies and tv and other media. Because in movies and stuff it is shown that way; that if you’re smart you’re not cool and if you aren’t smart you are. I don’t think that this actually is how it is at school, but I think it does influence the way people act. I think some people who have the potential to be really smart, dumb themselves down in order to be “cool” because of what society does.
Deletethis is a response to Alvin’s,
DeleteAt the beginning of what you were saying, I completely agree that something that was once fair can become foul and vice versa. Adding on to what you said, I also think that something that was once fair to one person/group that was foul to the other can become reversed. For example in World War II, the bombings of Pearl Harbour, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. At first the Japanese thought it was fair to bomb Pearl Harbour in the US, however the Americans thought it was foul. But, then a few years later something happened that reversed what each group thought was foul or fair. The Americans changed their mind and thought that bombing the Japanese cities, Nagasaki and Hiroshima would be fair, and the Japanese thought it was foul. Their opinions were completely reversed.
The simplest comparison is to life.
DeleteLife is a fair thing. It is obtained and maintained though though foul measures. It is impossible to continue life without foul measures. Animals will have to eat another, plants will compete for soil and sunshine, big fish eat smaller fish. But because life is a fair thing (for all things wish to have life), this collection of foul interactions then has to be fair, as it is the essence of life, the balance of the food chain, and creation with destruction, life with death. Foul then is fair, and Fair is foul. My views above were on the manipulation of fair and foul in relation to the ability to survive. Psychology teaches us that it is not possible (sanely) to carry out bad deeds whilst nakedly acceptly the foulness of ones deed. My point above is that we will always manipulate what is fair and foul to what it is needed to be for our sake. I could have added another level of mentality, the plane of Sanity. No evil is ever done unjustified by the doer (if he be sane). One example is the slavery of men from africa. For years the common belief from slave traders was one of liberation. Believe it or not, a common sentiment among them was the belief that because of the violent wars between rival tribes, by enslaving the inhabitants, they were slaving them from death by war. This is ridiculous to consider in this age, but it goes to demonstrate the lengths to which we will even lie to ourselves simply to protect our morality and sanity.
I agree with Shelby and you on your view on the school personality types. Not one person shares the same circumstances, views, personality, and genetics, so to group people together into one imaginary media portrayed character is more lazy and self-satisfying than realistic and unpessimistic.
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ReplyDeletea test post
DeleteFair is foul and foul is fair is an interesting theme but i think that we see this all the time in todays society beacause people enjoy watching horrible acts of violence and shows about crime for example like in oceans 11 people are made to think that the police are the bad guys and the robbers are the good guys. also from the year 2000 to 2006 the gang banger style was cool and there where all these kids acting like gangsters as for whether this will change i don't think so it is to rooted into todays society to go away
ReplyDeleteI believe people who watch shows about crime don't necessarily enjoy it in the same way you would say enjoy an ice cream cone. It doesn't necessarily bring them pleasure, but may just find it interesting. Depending on the situation and your point of view a "robber" could be a "good guy" and the police the "bad guys". Depending on the reason a person may steal for, and whom they steal from is important. For example if someone were to rob a drug dealer in order to donate to charity, some people would find that okay. Again depending on the situation. Robbing not at gun point but by hacking into their bank account perhaps. They are taking the money that the drug dealer only obtained through destroying the lives of people and feeding off the weak. In order to give to people who may have been born disabled and are facing a life and death situation. In todays society, there are cops who can be bought or may just be corrupt. For example a cop who is being paid by the local drug lord in order for the drug lord to keep their business going by paying a cop to cover something up. Or a police officer who uses their position in order to gain something. Such as using their power to potentially send someone to jail for money, an object of interest or even getting out of a bill or situation of some sort. Some people can be bought, while others cannot. It really depends on the person you are. In short, you can't really lump such a general group of people (police officers, and robbers) to only being good, and only being bad.
DeleteI agree with most of what you're saying but today's society only "enjoys" things like that because we've been so desensitized to it. It happens all around us all the time and has blended into how we are as a society. And going on to what Dion is saying I agree with the point that it is all based on your perspective. Of course a criminal would view the police as "bad guys" but I don't think a regular member of society would view it that way. It is fairly strongly rooted in society but not as much as it was a few years ago. I think it could still be changed.
DeleteIt's only 11:30 and I've been working for 5 hours. :(
I don't believe that society "enjoys" things like that because we've been desensitized to it. I believe its because we find it interesting because its not something we see everyday. Yes, we hear about people being murdered, raped and kidnapped everyday but we've never been given the opportunity to personally view it ourselves. So of course if we are given the opportunity to view something we never see we're going to take that chance. I'm not trying to say a criminal would view police as "bad guys" I'm saying that a criminal of the law isn't necessarily a bad person and vice versa that just because a person is a police officer it automatically makes them a good person.
Delete“Fair is foul and foul is fair” is a concept that is present so much in society, but is often overlooked and disregarded. An example that I think is common in the media is how the media tells people to be happy with themselves, and like themselves for who they are, mostly emphasizing that people should be happy with their physical appearance. They believe that a person being happy with themselves no matter what is good. However, in the media, they also tell people that to be pretty or handsome you need to be skinny or muscular, so therefore the media sends confusing paradoxical messages to the public. They say that being perfect (fair/good) is bad or foul, but then they also say that being perfect (bad/foul) is good or fair. The messages that they send to the public about their physical appearance is that being perfect is good and also that being perfect is bad, which is really confusing, but is an application of the theme “fair is foul and foul is fair”.
ReplyDeleteThe theme “Fair is foul and foul is fair” basically means to me that any given example especially those brought by society that everything is a blessing and a curse. You don’t even have to look into the morals society has brought upon us like violence and self-interest. The basic dynamics of society including laws, government and economy all fit in well with the theme of Macbeth. Law is a simple way to look at it because although the laws are there to protect you it is also they’re to be against you. That goes into government which is a different topic, but also the government make many…. Choices that may also fall into the group of Macbeth’s theme. You could even go into the little things in our society like clothes, for example Holister! Its fairly expensive (sometimes) and the clothes are fairly cheaply made, even TNA Etc. Basically what I’m trying to get at that Everything about society even many things about basic life is a blessing and a curse, even the good things.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the clothing example. In addition, many manufacturers are also taking advantages of the crowd’s high demand of the product, and as the result they made products with poor (even harmful) material and poor qualities so that they don’t last as long. As the result, however, the company is making tons of money because the demand of the product only increases as time passes, and the whole horrible cycle goes again with more poor quality products that break, and people buy more new products. Thus, the companies are making money as the fair reward from the foul marketing strategy they developed over years, and of course they would not stop the cycle! The only way to stop the cycle is to reduce the demand of the products then the manufacturers will stop making more “trash products” even though it was a “blessing” for their company.
DeleteThis is a very true factor in our daily life. The people that commit crimes and do violent and reckless things are somewhat rewarded for the things they are doing. If someone robs a bank they get rewarded with the items they have taken, and this takes a huge tole on a young child's mind. For example if a child see's someone mugging someone and they might think it is the right thing to do, so in return to seeing that they will act upon these actions as well. The people that do good in life today and succeed in what they do rarely get rewarded for what they do. I think that the play (so far) resembles our society as it is today. There are good people and bad people and like i said above not many of the good get what they deserve for the things they do, but the bad people always do.
ReplyDeletedear anonymous :)
Deletei agree ... mostly
Except what kind of crimes do you speak of ? and how, besides if you evidently succeed in this bank robbery.. will u be rewarded?
yes children are extremely easily influenced, but not really because the wallet they're influenced to take is not necessarily a good thing, but because it may be worth it? i mean what if your a kid whose homelife/family/loved ones are struggling with money or whatever it may be... and as far as the child realizes there may be money in the wallet, wouldn't it be survival instincts to take the money thinking possibly that it would help your family and possibly help you survive according to what society has told us is surviving... sooo essentially wouldn't that make taking the wallet surviving and good? to them i mean, who cares about societies standards. Also "The people that do good in life today and succeed in what they do rarely get rewarded for what they do." can you possibly explain this a little bit because.. it sounded like you said that if a person does good in life and succeeds that that in itself is not rewarding enough.. i mean if you succeeded in life whatever that means to you, you wouldn't be happy? isn't happiness a reward? i mean money isn't the only reward in this world no matter how hard society tries to make it seem like it. But if money were the only reward , why would it be wrong to just take the wallet? better yet why wouldn't the man/women with this wallet , just give it to the child or whatever is it u think of: charity, homeless etc.. wouldn't that be rewarding ? its the thought that the only reward being money brought on by the media/society/government or whoever else there is to blame that separates what you consider a bad person from a good person, and yea :)
I agree that a negative action may send the wrong impression if the action seems to bestow any reward of sorts, however to say that the bad people comitting the "foul" acts will always recieve "fair" consequences is not true. Any payoff is always temporary, and at the cost and risk of imprisonment. Laws are set to ensure these acts which have been deemed foul punishable, as to uphold order. These acts are always punishable if possible, and crimes are often comitted only out of desperation or insolence. It is true though that when the virtuous are neglected and the criminal allowed then, that the wrong immpressions may be formed.
DeleteI really dont agree with your point. Yes some of the people that commit crime will get what they want to get, but didn't got caught. Those who actually did something good for the society might end up being a no body. But just think about it. Those who commit crimes will be living under the pressure of being caught, or a really bad reputation. Though at the moment that they got what they want, but they can never get away from it because they will not forget what they had done. On the other hand, those who did good might not be as popular, or actually get something, but deep inside the feeling of helping is more than they need. Why would there be any volunteer in these world? Not because they help others because they have to, but that they love to. so at the end they actually get something, it just that it's invisible.
Deletecriminals will always get caught beacause they will slipp up eventually and in this day and age with all the technology bad people will get caught like look at the stanly cup riots there where all these people that where tweeting about what they stole i meant that stupidider than most bust people get cockey and think there invicible it's just human nature.
DeleteNo good deed goes unpunished :)
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with that one.
DeleteI want food. All I ate was a toaster waffle. :(
"Fair is foul and foul is fair." Basically meaning good is bad and bad is good, has so many distinct places in our society that many people don't even notice. So many things such as fast food industries, the liquor industry, and tobacco industries. The countless things put into fast food dishes are not healthy for anyone person. And putting things into them that are addicting to consumers is filthy and wrong, yet goes unnoticed to thousands of consumers. Sugar, and caffeine are put into the fast food products in massive amounts. Way too much for any person to handle if they eat it regularly, yet so many people get hooked on the sugar and wonderful taste that they can't help it. Liquor and tobacco companies are just pumping out loads of poison for people to use to "feel better" yet all it does in the long run is make them worse.
ReplyDeleteAn example I can take right out of the book, is one that includes the witches who actually say this quote. The three witches who say "fair is foul and foul is fair," give a good point to how things work. Their advice is fair, yet they themselves are foul in how they give it. They have good intentions for telling Macbeth what they did, yet the way they did it was not so good.
I agree with you! Fast food industries , like McDonalds, are always finding cheaper, bad quality ingredients to put into their food and they advertise it and point out that it is cheap, delicious, or is ‘nutritious’ even though it probably contains the most minimal amount that it doesn’t count as a health benefit anymore. People see huge advertisements and cheap prices and don’t think about the reason it’s so cheap. Fast food industries don’t inform their customers about the damaging ingredients their food contains; they just want to make a profit. I believe that this can change for some people though because they are aware of what it does to their body or are just turned off forever from watching documentaries on food production (like super size me!) and then there are others who really couldn’t care less, as long as it tastes good!
DeleteLiquor and tobacco are especially dangerous because they are addictive substances and though there are many warnings on the package, it’s easier to overlook if people are addicted
Excellent point. I totally agree with that. I actually wish I had though of that one. The fast food industry is an excellent example of this. Like if you look at the calorie information on a salad at mcdonalds it's ridiculous. They offer the "healthy" options but they are really just as bad as all the other stuff on the menu, some even worse! That's the whole idea of stuff like that though is to fool the consumer into thinking that they are buying something that tastes good and is good for them. Also Zoey has a good point with the cheap ingredients. They try and get the lowest cost ingredients to have the highest profit margins. And the only place to find the nutritional info is in the odd places you'd never think to look, like on the underside of the paper on the tray. They keep it out of the way because people don't care enough to look for them but will look if it's right there.
DeleteI hope it's almost lunch. It is! Flutteryay!
Back in around the year 2000, getting anything done wasn't normal and would probably be kept secret. When a celebrity got plastic surgery or something, the media would tear that person up!
ReplyDeleteNowadays, it’s more accepted and more people are open to it and doing it now than in the 2000's. In the show 2020, it showed these girls who went in groups to get things done and then go out to party and drink and it’s all good.
What I’m getting to is... The attractive fake person gets treated well and the less attractive person who didn't do anything wrong or changed themselves is shunned/made fun of (kind of like Piggy in "The Lord of The Flies"). The attractive person can be awful and if you knew them without looking at their physical appearance you would probably want to spit out a couple bad words at them but because fair is foul and foul is fair and this person is really attractive you'd probably feel the need to treat this person better and shun piggy. Even though he/she is a nice good person, you just can’t get past his/her appearance and make fun of Piggy with the attractive person. Changing yourself is bad; there’s a difference between enhancing your appearance with makeup and plastic surgery. Plastic surgery is when you dislike something about your physical appearance and aren't happy with what you already have, making it (in my opinion) a bad thing. However, people are treated better when they look the way everyone wants them to and receive compliments because of their new plastic goodness. People who look plain and choose not to cover up their insecurities are made fun of when they're just showing off what they were born with and not man-made goodies.
(fake and gorgeous is treated good and natural is treated bad)
real life example:
My dad had one of those noses...you know, the "Eagle Nose" and got poked fun at..so he got a nose job even though it's something you shouldn't be ashamed of and you should like the way you look! I'd suspect that people would think lowly of someone who did that but he received lots of compliments and girls got crushes on him instead.
http://www.plasticsurgery.org/Documents/news-resources/statistics/2011-statistics/2011-cosmetic-procedures-trends-statistics.pdf
^the link is proof for the 2000's plastic surgery rate being lower than now.
DeleteThat's a really good point that you see all the time. The really artificial people are the ones who get all the attention and they spend hours to look good, and act like stuck up b****es. While the nice people who just run a comb through their hair and go out and are really nice people are completely ingnored. I wish I was one of the second type but I'm type 3. The ferociously unattractive weird guy. Surgery could fix me but I would never do that. I completely do my own thing and live my life regardless of what people have to say about. I'm considered the weird fat loser because I live they way I want to. I'm unpopular because I'm my own person. At school I talk to maybe 4-5 people. I spend more time talking to teachers than I do with my fellow students. They understand me better and actually bother to talk to me. If I try and talk to another student I can tell that they don't want to talk to me so I just don't bother. This really turned into a rant at the end. Sorry about that. But yeah, I totally agree with your point.
DeleteSounded intelligent then went on a rant. Buck.
oh yeah I'm Andrew XD
Delete@Andrew
DeleteDont be hard on yourself! Nice people do get noticed because they're just nice! The most important thing is that you love yourself for they way you are :)!
The theme “Fair is foul and foul is fair” definitely showed itself in our society. For example, some manufacturers nowadays start to recycle plastic for reuse and make more new products. However, this is a case of "fair is foul" when the plastics being recycled contains harmful heavy metals but the company still reuse them again into production (e.g. children's toys.) What seems to be a fair thing to do for our planet (recycle) now becomes foul because it damages our health.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, "foul is fair" can easily be found in a lot of games that involves the player to perform tasks violating the law in reality, and in return gain pleasure from the game. As a result, some players are too deep into the game, they even try to carry the acts in the game into reality. The game provides a perfect environment for the players to think that the foul things they did are actually being accepted as fair performances. These reversals of morality is also seen in movie plots when the person who committed crime is rewarded by money, status, even power; and the other innocent character is being falsely incriminated. The situation of "bad people get what they want, but good people don't necessarily end up as good" fits with the theme" fair is foul, and foul is fair."
And unfortunately, I do not see a large chance of this reversed morality changing. Only if people start realizing what they did was foul, even though they might get fair things in return. Yet, sometimes people wouldn't stop the wrongs they do because they fall deeply into enjoying the rewards they get at the end.
I totally agree with your example of the games, Judy. Game influences the players with wrong ideas that may violate the law in reality (foul). But at the same time, the players receive excitement and pleasure from the games (fair). The theme, “fair is foul and foul is fair” is all around us. However, I kind of disagree with you on the example of the recycling process. What exactly is “good” or “fair”? And what exactly is “bad” or “foul”? Is trying to stop the process of polluting our environment by recycling harmful metals into production that might danger our life wrong? No, though in my opinion. People that try to recycle just want to stop Global Warming so human can live longer. This is a fair thing to do. But when the reused materials damage our health, is that a wrong thing to do if you stand in the position of an ecologist? I don’t think so. If we don’t try to recycle in order to avoid our heath injury, then what might happen to our world? The pollution will increase and all the lives on Earth will end of dying one day. Therefore, trying to consider in different aspects in our life, recycling is not a foul thing to do because we still have many other methods that can keep the harmful metals away from us without using the recycling method.
DeleteThanks for the reply. Yes, just to clarify the point on recycle plastic. I would say it is definitely a fair thing to do. Yet, not all the companies takes the time and extra cost to get rid of the heavy metals before the plastics are being remade into products, and that is where the "foul" of the company comes in place. The main reason behind recycling plastic is that the manufacturers have no need to produce new plastic, thus lower the cost of new products(if they are made out of recycled plastic). Even though the intention was good to reduce wastes, the outcome is bad when the company does not extract the heavy metals out of old plastics, thus they are being made into harmful new products.
DeleteHey Judy. I like how you brought up recycling plastic.
DeleteWe all know that plastic is harm for our Mother (Earth) However, we still ignore it.(create more plastics)
For example, water bottles, are almost made of plastics, plastic bags ( usually appear when your shopping) There are tons of things are made of plastics.
If we keep doing this, I am afraid our world will become just like the movie "Dr. Seuss's The Lorax"
Trees are made of plastic!? No single trees actually lives! This is madness!!
I think this plastic ideas really fit in the theme " fair is foul, foul is fair"
"Fair is foul, and foul is fair." One of the most used sentence my mom had used on me (in Chinese version though). As she had said before, "nothing is created to be bad, but once crossed the line, nothing can be good". For example, the idea of used of internet. Internet was a extremely useful tool to do just about everything, researching, shopping, communicating, and so on. It just one of the best and easiest way to get some works done. But what comes next? We spend more and more time on internet each day. People started to over spending their money on things they barely need, game when they have free time, and chat online for hours and hours. Time can easily pass when we're "online", especially in night time. Then the next thing we know, is that we're online at 1 o'clock in the morning again.
ReplyDelete"Fair is foul, and foul is fair". It might sounds weird and wrong and the first place, but it's actually really true once you think about it. Nothing can be completely right, and nothing can be completely wrong. If something is great for one person, it might not be even close to good to the other guy. There's no perfect definition for good and bad or right or wrong. Everything is good, but at the same time, everything is bad. It all depends on how we look at the situation and and how we use the certain things.
^I'm Hank, sorry somehow it didn't show the name
DeleteThat's an awesome way of looking at it. I like the point about the internet but 1 o'clock isn't that bad. It's during spring break when you go on at 9am the the next time you look at the clock it's 8:30am the next day. That's what I call a great day. I agree with the point that everything is both good and bad at the same time. I don't quite understand how it fits with "fair is fowl, and fowl is fair." That's more of a reversal of morality and your point is more of taking the morality into perspective and viewing it as both good and bad not one or the other.
DeleteLunch is soon :D
Hank, I totally agree on the idea of internet. We start to use internet on everything, like you said researching, shopping….etc. Why don’t we use book to search? Why don’t we go shopping at metrotown? Because it is easier to move your mouse and clip into some websites. Few steps and it is done. Most importantly, we don’t waste much time. Therefore, free time will be more. What do we do on more free time?
DeleteWe may play games..LOL or Facebooking! We do this kind of stuff because we want to have excitement and fun. So, sometimes, we are usually late for bedtime because of this reason. Hank I totally agree with your idea.
I think in this type of situation, where people start to use internet not only for research, but for other conveniences (such as on-line chatting, on-line shopping, or drama LOL) and in result spend way too much time on computers, there is a chance of changing. Although the majority of the people cannot get their butts out of their seats once they have their faces attach to the computers, some people indeed have learned time management. Others understand that there are more other important things to do than just sit in front of a computer for the whole day. Some of my friends, for example, choose to help out with volunteer works, work for part-time jobs, and even go out under the sun to enjoy their days.
DeleteBeverly has a very good point of the internet. Nowadays, internet is the most useful technology with the most resources. People use it not only for facebooking, online-chatting, researching, but also for entertainment, such as PC games, drama, animation… It is a fair thing to do when the internet provides us with a wide variety of usages, but internet also gives us addiction, which is a foul thing. Internet addiction may cause us to procrastinate, then like what Beverly has said, being stuck to the computer the whole day; then having health problem like miss lunch or dinner. The worst case is to get autism which may lead one to social destruction. I understand why internet is so popular because I am one of its fans. It is very hard to leave the internet if it is opened in front of you, therefore, try to find something to do, like volunteering (what Beverly has said), working, or playing sports to use time wisely.
DeleteHank, I really agree with you on there’s nothing that can be completely right. What we say as fair is only from our perspective. In this world, there’s no such thing that can be put as fair, but at the same time there’s no such thing that we can say that is foul. People who commit a crime, we think they are bad. But sometimes from other perspective they don’t think that it’s wrong. For instance, those who commit murders, in criminal law, we sometimes kill them in return for them to pay for what they have done. However if you think it as another way, even though the murderer did kill others, but in return we kill him as well. If we say that the murderer is evil, then aren’t we the same as him. Also, we kill animals (e.g. pigs, cows, chicken) for food. If we say that killing is bad, then we are doing the same thing. We kill for our own goods. Is that bad? Then how can we live? I think that, we all are animals. Animals do everything to maintain their health, to let them stay alive. This is what we all are doing. We kill for food, we steal for money, and we lie to obtain power. Everything we are doing are all for our self. That’s why I agree that there’s no such thing that fair or foul.
DeleteThe theme " fair is foul, and foul is fair." I think it basically means good is bad and bad is good. There are many good/bad events or things happen in our life. For example, computers, iPhone, iPod,
ReplyDeleteiPad...electric devices. These are bad for our eyes and health, but we, human still use it because we need them to do our English homework, and we need them to find some important resources that we don't know. Although we know the fact that electric devices are harmful, we still use them.
However, imagine if we don't have computer anymore. What should we do? In my opinion, I am doomed without it because without them, I can't go on internet to search some information and can't do my homework. Although it is a good thing to have no computer, it brings us many inconveniences.
without computer (bad) ------ good health (good)
( lack of information)
using computer (good) ------- bad health (bad)
( lots of information)
I think foul is fair and fair is foul means one’s satisfaction may see in other’s perspective into different story.
I totally agree with you on electronic device. It’s a great example of “fair is foul and foul is fair”. Every year, I feel that grades 8’s are shrinking. When I was in grade 8, people around me were about 160cm. However, I notice that each year, the grades 8 are becoming shorter. The grades 8 I know are not even 140cm. This has really shocked me. I found out the reason that most of the student from elementary all posses an I-pod or an I-phone. They use them so much that it delays their bed time.
DeleteNow, in our days more advanced electronic devices are out. Lots of people are in love with it even though they all know it gives harm to our body because it’s so handy to us that we can’t live without it. (Foul is fair) Also, because of those electronic, our lives are exciting. We can use them to communicate with others by non-verbal or verbally. We can use them to find information, or discover new things. Electronic has helped our lives in many ways (good thing), but they could also become a disaster (bad). Our healths, our environment, are being damage by it. (Fair is foul)
“Fair is foul and foul is fair” is all around us. Although we know what is good or what is bad for us, we still choose the foul part because we needed them so much that they can’t be replace. This has showed that there’s not much possibility of changing this in our society.
I completely agree with you Stanley. Computers and electronic devices that connects us with a wealth of information and applications is and excellent example of "fair is foul and foul is fair". To speak from personal experience, I am currently grounded from all electronics unless its for homework. Now in this time, when I'm not doing things outside, I am so bored out of my mind that I have read 600 pages worth of novels (I'm not completely done the third book) in under a week. Also I've also learned to perfect "Dream Wedding", a level 8 piano song, whilst I am only a level 3, in under 3 days and also learned the first page of "Moonlight Sonata" (level 10) in about a day. I am also currently teaching my brother to play piano also. If I hadn't been grounded and instead given access to the great wonders and pleasantries of the fun side of the internet, I would have definitely not done these things. Foul is fair, would be the term to use as not using the internet is "foul" because you don't have a wealth of information at your disposal, but turns out to be "fair" as I have developed better piano skills and passing those skills on to my brother.
DeleteAnother way the theme applies to advanced electronic devices is how they are made. Most electronic devices created by corporations like Apple, Microsoft and Sony are made in third world countries where the staff is severely underpaid and work in terrible conditions for an insane amount of hours with no breaks. This is "foul" because of the suffering of labour, but to companies and corporations it is "fair" because they make a better profit and also to people who buy them who get the wealth of information and entertainment.
i totally agree with carey the grade 8's are getting shotrter my mom always sais it's beacause i'm getting taller but i don't think so beacause we have a wall at home where me and my brother record hight and i was signigigantly taller than my brother when i was starting grade 8 than when he was at the end of grade 8 i also think that it probably is the lack of sleep beacause they are on there electronic devices in what world does a kid in grade 6 need a phone i'm in grade 11 and i don't have a phone i just think it's icredibally stupid that parents think there kids need to be in touch with them every five seconds it's almost funny for example
Delete9:50
Mom Where are you son
Son School
11:00
Mom where are you
Son I'm still at school
so on and so forth what elementry school kid is going to skip school or be in a situation where they need a phone just my opinion
I agree with Carey, too. And Tanner... a kid in grade 6 has a phone is not surprising anymore... I have seen a grade 4 kid owning an iPad...!! The effect that the electornic devices have on us clearly impacts our lives in negative ways (health, how tall you are, etc). Like Tanner said, I agree that phone is unnecessary for elementary school kids.
DeleteI totally agree to the theme “Fair is foul and foul is fair” because everything around us is an evidence to prove that this theme is right. Fair as in good will be punished and foul as in bad will be rewarded. This simple statement contrasted our morality into the opposite of what we usually think of, which is good is rewarded and bad is punished. Yet, “fair is foul and foul is fair” only corrects our morality and shows us the reality of how humans really are. For examples, lying is a bad thing to do; but we, humans, tend to lie so we can be rewarded by things like reputation, money, or praising. Plus, not all the liars are punished, instead they are granted by the things they want. However, sometimes lying is not bad, such as when one lies to an old lady that one is leaving the bus soon in order to give the old lady his seat; is this a bad thing? No, that nice person just wants to let the old lady to rest, but the people on the bus may think that it’s bad to lie or he just wants to show off his kindness. Furthermore, in our Canadian history, especially in 19 centuries B.C, Canadian judged aboriginals, Chinese, Indians… as intruders or stealers that tried to take their jobs away from them. But actually, these races never did anything wrong. They were just trying to work hard for their own lives. Sadly, Canadian didn’t get it at first so they discriminated them. Isn’t this a foul thing to do? Yet, no one was punished for that but was published as heroic history in our textbook. Lastly, the higher one’s position in job is like working in the government, the fouler things one does. Because of obtaining more power, people like to secretly have private meetings and do something foul with money. But those people only gets higher and higher position in their job then being punished. However, employments like street-cleaners always work hard to provide us with a good environment. Unfortunately, they never receive anything good as the higher position workers do; instead they are treated as poor or useless people by the others. As a result, these three examples all support the theme “Fair is foul and foul is fair”. There are still many examples like these ones that are happening around our world and trying to reverse our morality, even today. Therefore, this theme is essential in our lives.
ReplyDeletethis unknown person is me, Carla
DeleteI like how you brought up racism and discrimination as examples of the theme. Though racism was much more severe in the 20th century, we still see acts of it today. In our society, we are taught to be treated as equals and to not judge others by their appearance. Sadly, there are still some people who are racist and deny people opportunities such as jobs or promotions, or say racist comments. This is fair, because we are told to embrace who we are and foul, because we are judged and treated badly because of it. Will this change? Maybe it will, or maybe it won’t. I think that in our society today, racism is almost extinct. Canada is extremely diverse and people are more accepting of different cultures than before. Yes, there will always be people who judge others but I think racism has improved drastically over the last few decades.
DeleteCarla, I love how you put your example with the theme. I totally agree with you on the lying example. Human are selfish, we all want to gain power, money, and make everything to be ours. But how do we get it? Lies are the methods to achieve what we want. Just like the people working in the government, many of them hold parts of citizen’s taxes to their self and kept it as a secret. Those people who did wrong always get their wishes. It’s really strange sometimes that usually we all think that only the good people will get rewarded, and the bad will get punish. However, it’s actually the opposite as we think. As we walk into the society, everything seems different. The one that are fair tend to be foul, however those that are foul always achieve their desire. Moreover, in order to accomplish our wishes without any mistakes, people tend to bribe others to obtain their hearts. Even though it is wrong (foul). But in return, they all gain what they what (fair). Moreover, I do not agree with you on the discrimination part. It is true that people who discriminate others did not get any punishment; however, they did not get reworded as well. So this can’t be use as an example. Furthermore, I agree with Zoey. Over the past years, racism has improved extremely well. There are less people now that discriminate other race. Nowadays, different race has come together to know each other and become friends. I feel that sometimes, “fair is foul and foul is fair”, could be change over a long period of time.
DeleteIn the statement, “Fair” and “Foul” are two controversial and opposite words. And I believe that “Fair is foul and foul is fair” basically means good is bad and bad is good, is everywhere in our life. For example, mountain of piles of plastic that we produce is very useful for our needed. Yet, it is actually a harm to our environment and the human race, because it causes damage and diseases. On the outside they look good; however, they are actually foul to us. Another example, babies are cute when they are born. They can bring joy to anyone’s life. Though, they could become one’s nightmare as well, because of all the noises they make and all the things we need to prepare for them (e.g. changing diapers). There are many things that are not what we think they are, they may appear foul on the outside, but they are actually fair on the inside. Such as butterflies, they are gorgeous to look at, but they are actually a vermin to our garden. This reflects on our humans as well. Some of us may look fair on the outside, but are wicked, foul on the inside. On the other hand, those seem to look ugly, disgusting, may turns out to be fair. This has proven that this statement, “Fair is foul, and foul is fair” is true.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, lots of violence games have revealed this theme as well. For example, CS a computer game is a game that one rebel to the justice by killing police. This motivation of killing police in reality is a serious crime, however, in the game you get reward to become the winner and gain excitement from it. Over a long period of time, people start to get addicted and the false concept will slowly engulf what suppose to be right. They ended up becoming an actual criminal in life. This example of bad ended up being rewarded, and the one are suppose to be good turn out not so great has fits perfectly with “Fair is foul and foul is fair”.
I believe there is chance to change this. However, it’s up to one self. If one start figuring their mistake and willing to correct them, that will be the beginning of the change. Unfortunately, this possibility is very low. Because when one falls too deep, the only thing they are concern about is the feeling of joy and the reward, not their surroundings. They are only satisfied on what is in front of them.
Carey, I like the way you how brought up human’s outside and inside. Right, we shouldn’t look at one’s appearance to judge if one is good or bad. Not all the bad-looking people are bad; they are just born that way. For example, if you know a Disney movie called “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” In the story, the protagonist, Quasimodo, he has a giant humpback and a giant wart that covers one of his eyes. Everyone loves his singing while at the same time hates his ugliness. However, he doesn’t hate anyone. His heart is pure. He helps people.
DeletePeople should start to change the way they look at other unattracted people.
Violence games do not only include CS, COD, where guns and shootings are involved. Actually, if you come to think of it, all on-line games, and video games all involved in killing or destroying SOMETHING: human soldiers, cute style of animals, or fruits (such as.. Fruit Ninjas...). Players get rewarded either with expereiences, money, or treasures. That's how most people define "playing games", where you simply just destroy stuff. I remember my brother will always come to me and be like "Yo, sis! Maple Story is so fun! I killed some pigs! You want to see?" Then he will be bragging to me and show how he just kills a line of pigs with one shot... The pigs are drawn to be crying of course... before they die. And on my brother's face, will always be this.. huge satisfied smile :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIt is very true that being judged by appearances is an example of “fair is foul and foul is fair”. I totally agree with you, Carey and Stanley. People usually see good-looking people better than bad-looking people. However, being born ugly or pretty has nothing to do with one’s heart. Bad-looking people can be really kind, yet good-looking people can be really mean. An example of this is the beginning of this Disney movie, Shrek. The protagonist of this movie, Shrek, is a very ugly and smelly ogre living peacefully in a swamp. But because of his strange, monster-like appearance, the villagers dislike him and treat him badly. On the other hand, lord Farquaad, which is a normal human being but very evil, is living in a castle with others treating him kindly. This is exactly “fair is foul and foul is fair”; good people is treated badly, and bad people is treated gently. Moreover, I love the example of the video games Carey and Beverly brought up, especially Beverly’s Maple Story one (Very funny). Nowadays, violence is all over our world. More and more people get bad influences by playing video games, such as Call of Duties… It is not bad to play something you enjoy. But being engulf by the bloodshed of video games and actually create real bloodshed in life is wrong. Fair as in enjoying the video games and foul as in producing more violence in reality shows us another example of this theme. Anyways, people should not be addicted to the games but try to treasure the time right now. Video games only give us false excitement. Therefore, rather then living in an imaginary world, why not go out and try to experience more in reality.
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ReplyDelete@ kathleen- I do agree that better looking people naturally get treated better in life. But I don't see plastic surgery as a bad thing. Sure it may be a waste of money to get fake boobs and constant Botox. But just like makeup, a little Botox or a nose job can be used to enhance your look, or make you feel better. Which I think is fine, if it would boost your confidence by a little and make you happy, by all means I think people should be allowed to do things like that.
ReplyDeleteAnd there are many other uses for plastic surgery as well that really truly helps people who have been in horrible accidents, have birth defects, etc.
I can see how you find good is bad, bad is good in people getting treated better according to how they look.
Its different if they have been in an accident, I think that's ok but covering up your insecurities doesn't solve them. Makeup can be removed and is used (or should be used) to enhance your appearance not cover it up, its also a form of art. Plastic surgery for things other than your health is different because that's when you're changing yourself permanently for attention to look the way everyone else wants you to look..I don't think someone should do that. People shouldn't have to change the way they look for other people just be be accepted or to feel more confident. I think when they go outside with their fake appearance they're also wearing fake confidence, I don't know how they can look in the mirror and be ok without seeing their real face. This is just my opinion but I believe you need to be able to love yourself and the way you look before you can love anything else. I just dont think someone should be praised for giving themselves a body upgrade to cover up their insecurities..it just feels wrong :( (thats just my opinion though!! and its really off topic now XD)
DeleteAnd Stephan- we share DNA with bananas and sea sponges as well, so does that mean it is natural for us to crawl around on the bottom of the ocean?
ReplyDeleteI find that argument frustrating just as I did at the beginning of the year with lord of the flies.
We aren't apes. We are humans. And just because people have done it all through time doesn't mean it is natural for us to do it. You hear about bad things and assume that's all humans do. People never bother to look at the good! But yes we see what is morally bad to be good, and good things as boring. I agree with that
We do but I didn't say we share DNA I said that they are "our closest biological ally". And besides bananas aren't even in the same kingdom as us and sea sponges aren't even in the same phylum. Comparing us to something that can't think at all, let alone move by itself is like comparing a mechanical pencil with the terminator. Sure they both fall under the same categorie but one is far more advanced and superior to the other. I do agree with you on the fact that we are not apes but humans. However, when so many mammals (living things that can move by itself, can think for itself and live in communities) wage war on each other, you can't help but feel a connection. These mammals include wolves, bears, apes, foxes, lemurs,tigers, cheetahs, and for the main point, humans. Yes humans are not apes. Yes humans are not lemurs, or tigers or even things that cannot move or think for themselves such as bananas and sea sponges. However, whether we like it or not, we are in kingdom animalia, phylum mammalia. PETA would say that we're animals and so would every credible biologist in the world. We make conflict with each other because we as animals will think it will help us survive and thrive. I'm not saying ALL people are like this, and I do think that people should shun this kind of behaviour, but as it stands, doing bad things to get good things is just a way people get what they want. I'm not calling humans soulless, devilish beings. I'm just trying to state that we have all done something bad to gain something, and most people regret it,yet some people continue to do bad things with no regret for the sake of their own personal gain. An example is that we have all lied before.
DeleteAnd as for the "People never bother to look at the good!" bit, I do think people are in general good beings, however the topic revolves around people doing bad things and that's why everyone is talking about what is wrong with the world. Trust me, people aren't generally pessimistic. Andrew for example covered his desk in ponies and we all usually have a good time in class.
@Stefan
DeleteNot entirely on topic, but what does Andrew and his ponies have to do with us enjoying class? They just kind of sit there on his desk.
I do agree with you in part that we create conflict as a way of advancing ourselves, and getting what we want, but I do not necessarily believe that this is an instinctual thing.
After all, we as humans are smart creatures. We got where we are today sheerly on brainpower alone. Society doesn't leave much room for the actual, animalistic instinct that you are describing. Of course, we are born with instincts, but we are taught at a very young age to have "manners" and to fit in with the rest of society. I have found that when I lie, whether to gain something or avoid a negative consequence, that I make a conscious choice to lie. It is not an instinctual thing, it is an actual, cognitive process.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are miles away from the animal kingdom by now, sheerly by the merit of superior brain power. We are more complex than any other known creature on this earth. So complex, in fact, that the bad actions of a person, no matter how simple, cannot, in my opinion, be explained away by saying that we are basically animals ourselves.
It is true, that yes, we are motivated creatures, like chimps, and pumas, and any other animal on this planet, but how often do you see a chipanzee taking any more than they need to get by? Or any other animal intelligent enough to move and do things by themselves, for that matter? We are the ones with the big, greedy corporations, drug dealers, murderers and thieves.
Animals try to survive. Humans try to not only survive, but thrive, and have the best of everything. Although we can identify with animals to an extent, and we are animals ourselves, we must also not underestimate the power of the human brain, which definitely trumps instinct any day.
layllaaa! i agree so much
Delete@Tessa. We are miles away from animals based on our brain power alone, yes I agree. However to say that we are not the least bit similar is completely wrong. I don't want put to much of my argument on the animal kingdom, however, apes do in fact go to war, not to survive, but to gain resources and females (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3317461/Apes-of-war...-is-it-in-our-genes.html). But lets digress from the animal kingdom. ALMOST all civilizations/factions in PREHISTORY, separated by lack of technology for travel and communication, has participated in some form of warfare. What I mean by that is that ancient civilizations, with no means of knowing the other existed due to the lack of technology that connects people in any way, has been a part of some form of large scale conflict for their personal gain (whether its resources or just survival from the other faction). Now, with all these civilizations completely separated and all of them participating in some form of conflict for personal gain (again to clarify, survival from the other faction is a form of personal gain), then animals aside I can't help feel that there is a connection between people and conflict. Even when the Americas where discovered by the Europeans, who fought each other often for personal gain, the natives were ALSO fighting each other, despite the fact that the Europeans and people from the Americas had no knowledge of each other. The only difference is that they had much more primitive weapons and had no rules of warfare, so taking no prisoners, or torturing and raping prisoners, was not exactly uncommon. Even peaceful factions/civilizations involves conflict. A lot of peaceful Tibetan monks are trained to fight and kill. In fact, these peaceful people are such effective killers that in "Deadliest Warrior", they beat Maori warriors, who's entire culture is based on conflict and rivalry, so much that they cannibalize there enemies after. When Sikhs first started out they wanted to be peaceful. However persecution from Muslims and Pun jabs forced them into conflict. Point being, is that all civilizations, even before the time they knew about each other, has raised conflict for personal gain (and I will AGAIN restate the survival is form of personal gain, EVEN FOR APES). Because of this, I feel that there is a connection between human beings and raising conflict to get what we want.
DeleteAlso for the ponies thing, I meant that a person who puts ponies on his desk, regardless of ridicule, doesn't seem like a very morbid person to me. Isn't ponies all about the magic of friendship? Sorry for not making that more clear, but it wasn't a very big part of my argument.
@Stefan
DeleteI would not argue that we are not the least bit similar, but what I am saying is that we cannot pin our actions entirely on instinct. The point I was trying to make is that we are all complex individuals and that our similarities to animals do not determine who we are.
I am not saying that we are not instinctual creatures at all, what I am saying is that we cannot simply say that the root of human evil is basically that we are animals ourselves. We may share over 95 percent of our DNA with chimps, that is true, but our cerebral cortex is three times bigger than theirs. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061113180219.htm) Compared to them, we have a massive amount of brain power. Of course, we have instinct, but we also have thoughts and logical rational, more so than any other animal on this planet.
My problem with your argument isn't that it's flawed; on the contrary, I find it entirely sound. You bring up some good points, but you are oversimplyfing what makes humans do what we do. Yes, we are animals. Yes, there are animals that exhibit similar behaviors to us. Yes, instinct is a part of why we do the things we do. But it is not the entire reason. Our struggle for survival is not the only reason why we do the things we do. It is one fairly large reason, of course, but it is not the entire reason. Humans are too complex to be simplified down to basic instinct and a desire for conflict. Those are only a part of what makes a human a human.
We do not need a castle, large sum of money or a large corporation to survive, or spread our genes. On the other hand, a chimp fighting for resources and females can use these to help further themselves and reproduce. There is a distinct difference there.
In the very article that you cited to make your point ("Apes of War"), one of the professors, David Watts, says that all of the aspects of warfare (including political, linguistic, etc) are too complex to be simplified to such an extent. Our society is a very complex place.
And I'm not quite clear on the point you were making with Andrew and his ponies, but it certainly doesn't seem to be at the heart of your argument anyways, as you pointed out.
When I mentioned the ape, it was simply an example. It was quiet literally one sentence out of the dozen I wrote that Layla picked out, that started a huge rant. It wasn't even the basis of my argument. I just kind of used it to show a bit of proof. I'm not saying we are apes and I am FULLY aware that we are smarter then them in every way possible. In my piece I was just trying to state that people trying to take advantage of each other for personal gain (foul is fair), might be instinctual, as a method for us to strive in life. I could have quiet literally have taken it out of my argument and it would have made no noticeable difference to the point I'm trying to prove, thus I have no idea whatsoever why you are making the biggest of deals of it. However, if you do have a question about the general point I was trying to make in the section under Layla's first post, (although you did say my argument was entirely sound), I would be happy to address your inquires.
DeleteBut if you insist on arguing on this point, I'll be happy to rebutle on your 4th and 5th paragraph.
I see this a lot on TV with relationships. You try and do something nice and thoughtful and spend a bunch of time on it and you get yelled at for wasting your time and money. If you don't do anything you get yelled at for not caring enough or just being an ass. Same thing when a nice guy tries to ask a girl out with nice thoughtful original ways he will get completely ignored or though of as creepy or something. When a total d-bag asks a girl out by using idiotic pickup lines and swearing. He gets the girl. All this stuff never changes and makes no sense. It's screwed up.
ReplyDeleteYour friend the FSgt. brony. :)
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ReplyDeleteThe first time I read about this theme, I immediately thought of a Chinese idiom story called "Blessing or Bane".
ReplyDeleteThrough this story, the audience can see that although sometimes bad things do happen, this does not mean the current situation or the future is bad. An unfortunate event may soon come to an end and become the beginning of a marvelous situation; however, in contrast, it also reminds us that an unfortunate event may soon follow after something good happens. This is another representation of the theme “fair is foul, and foul is fair.” As a matter of fact, this situation often happens in our daily lives. For example, a child gets hurt when playing with fire even though he is told not to. The child will soon learn a valuable lesson about listening to the elderly. The situation itself at the present seems to be very bad as the child might be seriously injured (foul); however, if the child is able to learn from his own mistakes and knows that next time he should listen to his parents, he receives important knowledge (fair). (If the result turns out that the child learns his lesson, then it shows there is a chance of changing the fact that good is bad and bad is good.)
The best example for the theme "fair is foul, and foul is fair" is the sinking of the Titanic in 1912. Recently, it seems to have, again, become a popular topic in our media. Although I am not sure about the real story of the Titanic, as we all can see from the movie “Titanic”, the main character, Jack, wins the trip on the RMS Titanic during a dockside card game. The beginning of the movie's setting seems happy and we feel fortunate for the character and, in some cases, envy him. However, for an ordinary/poor guy like Jack, if he had never won the ticket to board the luxurious ship, he would have never experienced the trauma of the sinking ship and lost his life. This is just a movie, but in real life, there are similar cases.
The example you brought up about Titanic completely showed us how good things may end up badly while bad things sometimes are good. In addition, it ties in with the plot of Macbeth which we just read in the class. Macbeth was told by the witches that he will become the Thane of Cawdor then later become the king, and soon after that he’s granted with the title of Thane of Cawdor. It started with a good thing (same as the witches’ prophecy) similarly to Jack in Titanic when he wins his trip during the card game. However, both “good start” become the beginning of the character’s downfall. For example, Jack ended up with death, and Macbeth’s growth of ambition made him losing control over himself. Thus, he started to think about killing the current king in order for the next part of the prophecy to come true. If Macbeth was never given the title of Thane of Cawdor, or he’d listen to Banquo’s early warnings, he might not be thinking about killing the king to fulfill his ambition, which, explains how fair could be foul. Yet, foul could also be fair, when Macbeth used the bad way to get the title of the king (fair).
DeleteI totally agree with Judy. I love the example that you brought up about Titanic, it really presented us "Fair is foul and foul is fair". Also where you said that bad thing could become a lesson is another good example of this theme. Just like Judy said, Macbeth is a person which everyone loves and respect, even the King has trust in him (good start). However, as he met the witches and been told of the prophecy, he ended up losing to his ambition (his flaw), which make him start to think of kill the King in order to achieve his wish to gain more power. (Downfall) This part has clearly demonstrated that "foul could be fair". Also, it shows “fair could be foul”, because his goodness ended up becoming his downfall. Moreover, in Macbeth, the Cawdor who live badly, which ended up dying nobly (well). Yet, Macbeth lives well, but died badly. This has give another example of the theme, “Fair is foul and foul is fair.”
DeleteIn Macbeth, the theme “fair is foul and foul is fair” is shown everywhere in the story. It is very significant because it gives us great understanding of what is going to happen.
Same here. The titanic movie is a very good example of “fair is foul and foul is fair”. Jack Dawson, the kind person, ends of dying; and Cal Hockley, the very mean person, end of surviving from the tragedy. However, in my opinion, the example of the little kid doesn’t really show the meaning of this theme. It is correct that the child might be injured is a foul thing to do and to learn something is fair thing to do, but this stubborn kid is being punished by getting hurt. When he didn’t listen to the elder (foul) he ended make mistake that may hurt himself (foul), this gives us an example of “foul is foul”, not “foul is fair”. To me, the better example might be the kids in the 19 centuries. From our social class, people in the 19 centuries saw the kids as innocent and pure. They trusted the kids and thought everything they did is right. However, because kids are small, they usually make mistakes, especially in the history of witch hunting. In that period of time, many kids created lies of people being witches to adults and this caused a huge slaughter of innocent people (foul). Were the kids being blame as the real criminals? No! People believed their words and kept treating them kindly (fair).
DeleteBeing punished as a result is not a pleasant thing. However, the values/lessons that the children have learned are more important than the punishments. Even though the children are hurt or punished, in the end, (HOPEFULLY) they grew up from their mistakes. Punishment itself may just be part of the process for the children to learn.
DeleteI agree with your ideas on the cildren in the 19th centuries. I'd read about those stories before in which children lie about people being witches or seeing witchcrafts and cause others' deaths. People will always have a hard time believing that children will lie or commit crimes because of their innocence, ignorant, and purity. Not just in the 19th century, but in our own century... some children make up lies, too. For example, I read about this news thhat the court asked a child to be the witness. The child, due to fear and also she wants to please the judges, she ends up accusing the wrong person. And of course, the falsely accused criminal ended up in the jail and spent 10 years of his life. In daily lives, we also see young siblings making up lies. Parents usually belived them and sometimes the older siblings have to take responsibilties.
On a first glance, the paradox “fair is foul and foul is fair” seems to be completely irrelevant to our society. What it basically states is that “what’s good is bad and what’s bad as good”, which seems counterintuitive.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, we have been raised, in various ways, to believe that the good are rewarded, and the bad are punished. Take just about any Disney movie, for example. The protagonist of the film, usually a kind, beautiful, princess is rewarded by the end with true love and happiness for their goodness. On the other hand, the villain of the film is subjected to death, and usually a horrific one at that. This sort of material is what many children grew up with.
As children grow older, however, they begin to discover that the movies and books of their childhood, which spoke of good triumphing over evil, are unfortunately not very applicable to real life. As many have brought up before me, the media that we are exposed to changes as we age. We go from watching Snow White being rewarded for her goodness to seeing reality stars prance around the television, making millions off of getting into heated arguments, and swearing every two seconds.
And then, of course, there are the many terrible or “foul” people who commit terrible acts every day, and do not get punished. A good example of this is the many drug dealers who hook people on very addictive drugs, such as meth and cocaine for the mere purpose of making money. Although these actions are condemned by much of society, and are considered evil by many, the drug dealers profit from the misfortune of others.
Another example of this is con artists, who make their living out of scamming people out of their money. Perhaps not all of the people that they scammed were good people, but many of them were. I even once read a story of a man who scammed his own mother out of a large sum of money! He managed to escape the consequence of his actions by going into hiding, and thus reaped a large reward from taking advantage of a vulnerable, trusting person.
In conclusion, although “fair is foul, and foul is fair” may not seem to apply to our society, at first, it is actually very closely tied to it. There are good people who are punished for their goodness, and bad people who are rewarded for their wickedness, and it is the natural order of things. Until we stop lusting for power, wealth and happiness beyond any moral means, it is unlikely that society will change for the better in this manner for a very long time, if ever.
I agree with you, Tessa! Especially about con artists! And speaking of addictive drugs like meth and cocaine, it reminds me that we have learned a variety of drugs in psychology class. Hallucinogens, being one type of drugs, cause people to experience hallucinations, imagined expereiences that seem real. The “trips” caused by hallucinogens can last for hours and arts of these trips can feel really good; therefore, bring pleasant feelings to the drug user. Although the drug users know the substances are harmful to health or will even produce brain damage(foul), yet they still choose to take those kinds of drugs because they cannot resist the pleasant feelings(fair). Many people take drugs to escape from reality. For example, a person may be having stress from successful career/school work. In others' eyes, it is something to envy for; however, under the situation, depressed emotions were found. If you come to think of it, it is the person's successful journey that bring him to his downfall. Of course, this can be avoid, if the person chose whether to be optimistic.
DeleteI, in turn, agree with you on the point of drugs, Beverly. Certainly, they do cause pleasurable effects, but in the end, they can harm a person's quality of life.
DeleteI find that there is a parallel that can be drawn between any addictive substance found in our society and Macbeth's ambition itself. Macbeth's amibtion, without any context to the story itself, could be considered a positive trait that is an asset to the character.
Similarly, if you were to look at the symptoms of a cocaine high, they also appear positive if you don't know about the long-term effects, the addictive properties, and the inevitable crash after drug use. After all, "a high, euphoric feeling, increased mental awareness and increased energy(http://www.friendsofnarconon.org/drug_education/drug_information/cocaine_%10_crack/symptoms_of_cocaine_use/) sounds like a good thing to the casual observer.
Both cocaine and ambition, despite the "fair" side of them seeming harmless, or even beneficial at times, both end up being very dangerous in the long run. While cocaine brings about addiction and death, Macbeth's ambition causes him to committ atrocities, be obsessed with being King and to doom himself in the process. For every "fair" thing about these two items, something "foul" happened in consequence.
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ReplyDelete...In the past 3 days, i havent had a single good idea...running outta time. Well, since most of these posts are about how "Foul is Fair", and i dont think i can top them, I'll go the other way.
ReplyDelete"Fair is Foul". It's an interesting concept. And definitely a true one. Say you're running late for Mr. Onukwulu's Class, and you see an Old Lady seems to be over-encumbered with like 8 plates of breadsticks. You Leave her, and be cruel, or Help her out, be a good person, a good student, citizen, whatever. But in Helping her, you end up getting late for Mr. O's Class, and end up, yep, POT OF SHAME. By accomplishing a fair act, you recieved a foul reward. But just because if seems like the reward is foul at first glance, doesnt mean it is. If you think a bit more, there may be some merit in the situation. Helping the old lady, she is forever grateful do you, and will become you're loyal servant. And accomplishing a Pot of Shame, may, i dunno, make an impression on people who have never noticed you in the class, and after being shamed, what have you got to lose in the class anymore? (lol)
(Epiphany get.)
If this can be said for "Fair is Foul", i think the gist of it carries along to "Foul is Fair". At face value, a foul deed may seem to reap fair rewards, but what of what it'll cause? Say you...Break into Area 51. It's Obviously a crime, what with all the signs everywhere, but you discover that there IS alien life out there. Or you find alien weaponry. Either way, sneaking in got some pretty sweet stuff. But what if, in doing the foul act, you set yourself up for disaster ( what am i saying what if, Macbeth already proves this, durp)? What if, Alien life has been known for years, the governemnt was just protecting the aliens, (and us?) from a foreign Alien force THAT WOULD ANNIHILATE THEM(GASP)? Or that alien weaponry is something that had been hidden in area 51 for years, and in taking it out, the aliens have discovered it again, and they're gonna ambush you, kidnap you, take back their weaponry, study you, do a ton of weird stuff do you, and dispose of you in space, while they mass-produce more of the weapon (which may have been a prototype...?) and ANNIHILATE THE HUMAN RACE(OH GOD).
Did i rant? I dunno(lol). But im pretty sure im making sense. To Summarize, At face value "Foul is Fair, and Fair is Foul" but deep down, the risk, is more than the reward, and the reward is more than satisfying enough for the risk.
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DeleteSecond Paragraph typo, "Forever grateful *to* you"
DeleteFirst off I'm glad you fixed that typo and second off That area 51 stuff is awesome and you would totally score a ton of sweet loot. Do you want to go do that and find some cool alien weapons and go blow something up. I'm free 2 weeks from now. Yes, you totally did rant. You really cut it close on the deadline. Your post was at 2 minutes to deadline. You must have been freaking out just a little bit. But nice post.
DeleteIf anyone sees andranator2 on the comments it's me Andrew. Totally not some crazy 40 year old english prof. Have a wonderful saturday!
ReplyDeleteThe phrase, "fair is foul and foul is fair" is 2 biased points of views put together. A lot of oil companies from North America go to other nations, (many developing nations) and take all of their oil reserves. In many cases, wars occur in the process. From a north american point of view, this obviously foul situation seems fair to them. The only thing making the situation foul is that the invaded nation's point of view would be that the action was foul. If the oil companies didn't invade, then the other nations would feel that it is fair but would result in the companies having no oil and therefor having a foul situation. Without the other point of view, the phrase would be "fair and foul."
ReplyDeleteI can't agree with this more! This reminds me that the invaders often claim that they are providing "protections" to the country they have just invaded. However, they are the one who are secretly extracting the losing country's natural resources. In fact, the initial reason of the invasion IS the desire of the resources, yet they falsely claimed they are giving protections to the poor country. By saying this, some people might see it as a generous action/idea. But the invaders' ambitions and actions are obviously foul.
DeleteI thought i was a rather genius when i just thought of this, i need a post, and i thought u guys might enjoy this. The theme fair is foul and foul is fair even applies to this very assignment. Getting your posts done on time and fast, along with staying active on the blog is good (fair) but bad for me as in it takes quite some time to put together a decent post which eats into my do-nothing weekend time (foul). But if you leave it to the end you are stuck cramming in posts that might not even make sense (foul) but it feels good because I had a good time doing nothing all weekend (fair).
ReplyDeleteAs well I don't want to seem too picky, but if you are going to have a long post (250+ words) can u have a quick summarization at the bottom of what it is so it is easier for me to follow along with a chain of long posts, thanks!
soo basically doing homework(good) but miss weekend (bad)
Deletenot doing it (bad) enjoy weekend (good)
I get where youre going with this and I see the connection but it doesnt really work..(?) I think its supposed to be something that a majority people praise but in reality if you really think about it, its bad. like how dion said doing well in class is good but people make fun of you for it..this is like the same thing but its only bad(?) in your perspective...even then the cramming posts in the end is the a lose-lose because you didnt do it and then it turned out bad XD (does that make sense??)
SO basically in the end doing the assignment early is good and will be praised (so its not bad at all..you just lost a weekend)
wooot way to go block b we destroyed the other blocks by over 50 posts
ReplyDeleteWe should all become philosophers!
Deleteyeaaa :D
DeleteOh god I'm making another post without many other people posting after... But i just had another incident where this applied to my life. It was in my hockey game i had last night and i found myself relating to fair is foul and foul is fair. There were many times where i could have just taken a shot in my game, it would have been at a bad angle but i could have had a shot or passed to a much more inexperienced and non-reliable player. Most of those times i passed because he had the better scoring chance but i knew that there was a good chance he would miss this net. The theme applies here because it would have been good (fair) to take the shot but bad (foul) to not pass the ball to the player with the better scoring chance. And its also bad (foul) that i knowingly gave up a chance to score, but its good (fair) that i passed the ball the the player in the better position.
ReplyDelete..All of these posts remind me of cliche kung-fu/martial arts movies.
DeleteThe ones where they say (and rightly so), "good cannot exist without Evil, and Evil Cannot exist without good"
Also reminds me of how some are like, concerning the yin and yang, where its like if good exists, so does bad, maintaining a balance.
So maybe it's true. Fair is foul, and Foul is fair, but as in doing a fair act, will also be foul, and doing a foul act will also be fair.(?)
haha ya that one is true, and i know what you mean. From any team sport that example is a good one, since everyone wants the glory. The first point is for team glory though, so as long as what your doing is good for the team, the perception of your teammates, which is that your action is foul, is foul in itself because it is a fair action for the team. What is fair is foul is fair then.
Delete